So u've got a degree

[Zero]

Originally Posted by Rizolicious i dont think that is true at all, because even if you get shit grades at college to go to you, and you dont meet the requirements, half the time they will put you in anyways through clearing. and anybody can do a bit of research for an assignment for 2 weeks and come out with a good grade. i wouldnt say uni is the elite, but just a large stop forward.

Aw thats not true, you saying University of Manchester uni graduates are not the elite? University of London graduates are not elite? University of Cardiff Graduates are not elite? Oxbridge dudes are not elite? If you take a trip to one of these places you see how the differ from the people of the same age as them who are working-class?

And you dont always neccesarily get in through clearing.

Anybody can do a research assignment? Of course, everybody has a brain but that doesnt neccessarily mean they know how to use it to the best of their academic ability?

[Rizolicious]

there specific uni's though, of course, as they are the highest uni's in the country pretty much. however, zero's point was just universities in general.

[__________]

I am going to agree with Ritz on this one nowadays companies look for someone with experience not whats on their degree paper as there is so many people out there all with degrees. Every Tom Dick and Harry out there has a degree nowadays unless you've gone into medicine, dentistry or Law etc, with all other jobs slowly but surely it is very possible to work your way up!

[Zero]

Originally Posted by Rizolicious there specific uni's though, of course, as they are the highest uni's in the country pretty much. however, zero's point was just universities in general.

NU-Uh, I stated before not any uni but "medium to high-range unis".

[Zero]

Originally Posted by __________ I am going to agree with Ritz on this one nowadays companies look for someone with experience not whats on their degree paper as there is so many people out there all with degrees. Every Tom Dick and Harry out there has a degree nowadays unless you've gone into medicine, dentistry or Law etc, with all other jobs slowly but surely it is very possible to work your way up!

True that, it matters WHAT degree you get, I mean I seen a degree for "War Studies", now I dont really know where you could go with a degree in war now...

[Kayz]

i was reading this from work, but couldnt reply.

I agree with both sides, as both sides have valid points! But im more towards the no university and experiance side with Ritz on this one.

I didnt technically want to go uni, but then i was told its my only chance.. to get something extra under my belt.. so i went uni pursuing my hobby.. so here i am no harm done at uni.

Tbh employers look for experiance that what qualifications you have. Yes having qualification is an added bonus under the belt gives u a slight upper hand. But i also believe non graduates can do as or better than those who have already graduated no joke.

Let me give a good example like ritz. I recently started a job, and the job is quite good i must say. I was suppose to be on a 10 week trial which i will get £10 a day for the exp im getting for 10 weeks and then £20 a day so roughly £100 a week for doing 9 hours of work.

Company is quite small all the lads and lasses are my age 21/22, 2 of those people started in interns. I was going to do the same £100 a week. But i wanted to do pt just a few days instead of 5 days. I only did 2 weeks instead of 10 weeks and gave my notice.

But no they wanted me bad, why? because ive already proven what i am capable of. Now heres the funny thing.. the guy who has been working there for almost a year is getting a lesser wage than me... why again? because of the exp i have... also heres another funny thing.. the exp ive got i didnt learn from uni or school, but myself, yes i taught myself. Ive still got 1 year left of uni and im going back to uni soon and leaving my post.

Ive already got 1 person under me can you believe that? Ive got to teach the guy somethings which i learnt by myself in my teens before i leave my post. Also i can quote you what my boss said... "Im not after people with big qualifications, just need your commitment" so there you go.. thats why there was a 10 week internship.. + exp.

I have family members who left school and their earning big bux no kidding. its quite suprising, but it boils down to exp.

Ok, everything im doing and learning at uni i already know half the stuff.. also what uni is teaching me is not all that.. and uni's dont teach u everything they expect u to do your own research and work also.

Ask yourself this question if you had a business wouldnt you want the best? Wouldnt you want somebody who knows what their doing and not somebody who jsut graduated in basket nitting? Yes its easy to get into uni these days.. just work your way up slowly.

But i also have freinds who are becoming docs.. and yes u cant teach your self medicine now can you? for those type of posts yes u need to go to uni.. it does depend on what you want to do.

If i had a business i would personally choose somebody who can bring good to my business and who is exp.. if i didnt have a choice then i would take the grad on as i would expect them to be a tad bit smarter.

So both parties are 50/50 right.. degree's do give the upper hand but not all that in this day and age, maybe it was before but not anylonger.

[CrazYt™]

I got to agree with Miz on the part where he’s mentioned that people without a degree are limited, meaning they can only move up so much in the world with just experience under their belt . They will most undoubtedly reach to a plateau and can’t move up anymore as they need that degree to shift any higher.

Degrees today are about end result in careers; not it’s beginning but reaching that very high position. These days they are a key that basically unlocks your route to those very high managerial position (not just managerial), not your low department managerial positions; Managerial positions such as in big company/organisation, store manager of a supermarket etc. A person without a degree in most cases will not be able to reach these higher positions as a degree would most indefinitely be a prerequisite.

But in terms of seeking a job with a degree fresh out the university without any experience might prove to be like being someone who doesn’t have a degree or the experience, but having said that when both of them do get the job (say the same job for example) who do you think will end up with that top position in the company?

Bottom line: Degree = key to unlocking those higher positions in society and world of work, without it you can only reach so high so you are limited

Ps. When I talk about degrees I talk about real degrees, the ones that are useful to a career not the bogus degrees.

[MizzyBone]

Seems like only CrazyT knows what im talking about.

Everyone who is agreeing to experience matters is missing the point, I am not talking about the START of your career im talking about the end, the high positions, the ones that will make you stand out to the rest.

As T said there will be a plateau after which non-graduates will find DIFFICULT to overcome, Kayz the job you got again is NOTHING special, it is special in terms of within the Asian or working class communities since its better than a restaraunt or Tesco's job but in the real world your still the small fish.

Companies want people without grades so that they can keep the small fish, small.

[Commando Dave]

Originally Posted by MizzyBone Seems like only CrazyT knows what im talking about. Everyone who is agreeing to experience matters is missing the point, I am not talking about the START of your career im talking about the end, the high positions, the ones that will make you stand out to the rest. As T said there will be a plateau after which non-graduates will find DIFFICULT to overcome, Kayz the job you got again is NOTHING special, it is special in terms of within the Asian or working class communities since its better than a restaraunt or Tesco's job but in the real world your still the small fish. Companies want people without grades so that they can keep the small fish, small.

# Radio Crackles #

Comrade you indeed are correct!

Education is not only the preparation for better jobs in life!

Education is life itself! it is tommorrows investment!

Commando Dave

[MizzyBone]

Originally Posted by Commando Dave # Radio Crackles # Comrade you indeed are correct! Education is not only the preparation for better jobs in life! Education is life itself! it is tommorrows investment! Commando Dave

Oh look who is back 8)

[Sidra240]

iv gotta agree with crazy t and miz, offcourse experince is needed but degree is essential too

[Kayz]

Originally Posted by MizzyBone Kayz the job you got again is NOTHING special, it is special in terms of within the Asian or working class communities since its better than a restaraunt or Tesco's job but in the real world your still the small fish. Companies want people without grades so that they can keep the small fish, small.

lol when i got the job and when i found out my responsibilites i was laughing in shock as to the type of responsibilities i was given. Let me tell you what some of my responsibilities are

Remember this is the best ive done in my entire life time at this age so i am proud..! It opens up soo many doors, infact i can come back to this job ive got after uni if i wish, which is just awesome as im highly regarded in my current job.

Let me do some boasting now.. this is the only time in my life time that im having braag about what im doing atm to explain a few things in regards to this discussion. This is what my current job entails.

1. Doing the company's web site, web development. Managing over 50 other websites and their DNS, MX records, settings making sure all is running smoothly.

2. Managing other peoples websites, big cooperate companies, editing modifying also assisting with their websites and CMS's!

3. Im having to design, create and also do some programming,

4. I just got in the job, the boss taps me on the shoulder loves me, and i love him back. At the same time im doing IT support and some minor server maintenance as im still learning in that area.

5. Because of the specialist skills ive brought in, and that nobody else does what i do in the company im already earning more than those people who are on the helpdesk who have been there for almost a year. Im still a student and the pay their giving me is half of what im suppose to be earning so its ok with me but its the same rate as the helpdesk supervisor!

I was suppose to be doing a 10 week trial instead i did 2 weeks! In a real world career if i was a bit older then for the specialist skills that i have now, i should be earning twice as much as im earning at the mo.

6. I also do the companies marketing and promoting side of things and im the only one whos doing it. At the same time im learning so many things.

7. Im teaching another guy who responds to me, and from the 10th next monday an asian woman is coming in from another company, and im showing her own post and how shes going to pickup when i leave.

8. Now this is the most impressive.. i make decisions and also advise the company as well as i play a big influencial part in the company's decison making. When it comes to making decisions on what software support suite to get, or what would be better and whats worth the money what will be best for the company etc, and other internet related technological decisions i make with the bosses. In other words i do a report and a feasibility study. Then we execute!

9. On top of all that i answer calls, do general IT support, remote support, onsite support and also carry out daily backups. All this is done with internal and external clients.

Theres a whole host of other things more that ive missed out already. But thats just some of the main bits.

Ok i only braaged because somebody said its a small fish job. Im working 8:30-past 6pm.

Now going back to the topic.. thats a hell of a lot of experience. Even before ive finished uni. At this age. Now what im saying is this isnt just an ordinary asian job but somewhat on the specialist side, as not everyone can do what im doing at the moment. What their teaching me at uni i already know 75% of it.

There are women a few floors up doing word processing and thats their fulltime job and career. In comparison with what im doing. I think people would most probably need a degree in Business Marketing and Internet Related studies to do what im doing at the moment. But ive surpassed that.

My bosses already told me that he expects me to do good in uni.. and i "blusshed" knowing that i could possibly flop as things arent always clear down the line. He also told me that ive done a better job of things than the previous guy that was around.

Now what im trying to say in response to this topic is that yes people with degrees get the upper hand. But people with exp can do exactly the same. Trust me i know people with 2:1 degree lying around doing nothing as they cant do much.

There are people who come out with top degree's but their not socially capable meaning they find it difficult to interact with other people and cannot even communicate or get along with people.. now it dosent matter what degree u got. You cant go anywhere if you cant commuicate.

Its funny im doing a degree yet i dont believe in degree's wholly. But i do believe experience and degree's are equally the same, seriosuly. The only thing that can beat all other jobs "mostly" will be doctorate/medicine degree's now thats a degree. Not basket nitting. I seriously cannot compare or argue with a doctor as to get into their shoes u need more than a logical brain.

E.G. People cant become doctors by teaching themselves or by reading books. You need to be qualified and officially identified.

People who do business managment (thats just an example im using) you can read books and literally teach urself business managment.. i mean you will get ahead of uni easy. Like in my degree i already know half the stuff.. and 95% of the people in my course dont.

So likewise people can become writers by writing, reading. People can become anything they want provided they can get their hands on it. I got my hands on IT and im doing it. Learnt things by myself. In comparison with medicine or docs.. you cant do that. You need practical exp as well as you need to be professionally identified.

To conclude.. degree's and experiences are almost equall unless ur doing a degree which requires a real degree like medicine... I hope you get my jist of this argument.

Good read God bless

[MizzyBone]

Originally Posted by Kayz Let me do some boasting now.. this is the only time in my life time that im having braag about what im doing atm to explain a few things in regards to this discussion. This is what my current job entails. 1. Doing the company's web site, web development. Managing over 50 other websites and their DNS, MX records, settings making sure all is running smoothly. 2. Managing other peoples websites, big cooperate companies, editing modifying also assisting with their websites and CMS's! 3. Im having to design, create and also do some programming, 4. I just got in the job, the boss taps me on the shoulder loves me, and i love him back. At the same time im doing IT support and some minor server maintenance as im still learning in that area. 5. Because of the specialist skills ive brought in, and that nobody else does what i do in the company im already earning more than those people who are on the helpdesk who have been there for almost a year. Im still a student and the pay their giving me is half of what im suppose to be earning so its ok with me but its the same rate as the helpdesk supervisor! I was suppose to be doing a 10 week trial instead i did 2 weeks! In a real world career if i was a bit older then for the specialist skills that i have now, i should be earning twice as much as im earning at the mo. 6. I also do the companies marketing and promoting side of things and im the only one whos doing it. At the same time im learning so many things. 7. Im teaching another guy who responds to me, and from the 10th next monday an asian woman is coming in from another company, and im showing her own post and how shes going to pickup when i leave. 8. Now this is the most impressive.. i make decisions and also advise the company as well as i play a big influencial part in the company's decison making. When it comes to making decisions on what software support suite to get, or what would be better and whats worth the money what will be best for the company etc, and other internet related technological decisions i make with the bosses. In other words i do a report and a feasibility study. Then we execute! 9. On top of all that i answer calls, do general IT support, remote support, onsite support and also carry out daily backups. All this is done with internal and external clients. Theres a whole host of other things more that ive missed out already. But thats just some of the main bits. Ok i only braaged because somebody said its a small fish job. Im working 8:30-past 6pm. Now going back to the topic.. thats a hell of a lot of experience. Even before ive finished uni. At this age. Now what im saying is this isnt just an ordinary asian job but somewhat on the specialist side, as not everyone can do what im doing at the moment. What their teaching me at uni i already know 75% of it. There are women a few floors up doing word processing and thats their fulltime job and career. In comparison with what im doing. I think people would most probably need a degree in Business Marketing and Internet Related studies to do what im doing at the moment. But ive surpassed that. My bosses already told me that he expects me to do good in uni.. and i "blusshed" knowing that i could possibly flop as things arent always clear down the line. He also told me that ive done a better job of things than the previous guy that was around. Now what im trying to say in response to this topic is that yes people with degrees get the upper hand. But people with exp can do exactly the same. Trust me i know people with 2:1 degree lying around doing nothing as they cant do much. There are people who come out with top degree's but their not socially capable meaning they find it difficult to interact with other people and cannot even communicate or get along with people.. now it dosent matter what degree u got. You cant go anywhere if you cant commuicate. Its funny im doing a degree yet i dont believe in degree's wholly. But i do believe experience and degree's are equally the same, seriosuly. The only thing that can beat all other jobs "mostly" will be doctorate/medicine degree's now thats a degree. Not basket nitting. I seriously cannot compare or argue with a doctor as to get into their shoes u need more than a logical brain. E.G. People cant become doctors by teaching themselves or by reading books. You need to be qualified and officially identified. People who do business managment (thats just an example im using) you can read books and literally teach urself business managment.. i mean you will get ahead of uni easy. Like in my degree i already know half the stuff.. and 95% of the people in my course dont. So likewise people can become writers by writing, reading. People can become anything they want provided they can get their hands on it. I got my hands on IT and im doing it. Learnt things by myself. In comparison with medicine or docs.. you cant do that. You need practical exp as well as you need to be professionally identified. To conclude.. degree's and experiences are almost equall unless ur doing a degree which requires a real degree like medicine... I hope you get my jist of this argument. Good read God bless

1. Do you know why your boss taps you on the shoulder? Because you are doing so much for the company, for so less, someone with a PROPER degree im not talking Tom, Dick or Harry degrees would have been easily on twice what you are.

Most of what you mention are the fact that you are doing what you enjoy, that doesn't matter, you have to ask yourself, when it comes down to the end how much will you be worth it compared to someone with a notable degree?

Like I said its a small fish job, the only difference is your tank is smaller, go into a bigger tank and you will see, what I mean.

2. As regards to your job tell me something, do you truly believe that MANY peolpe have the same opportunities as you? to get the chances that you have got?

My point was never about people without degrees not being able to get get jobs, ANYONE can get a job and work there way up, but wait till you get to the upper tier of any MAJOR companie or corporation, all of a sudden Mr Smith your rival has a degree AND experience, whilst you have your great experience too. As much of a difficult choice it is they will go for the guy with the degree.

At the START of any career it is hard to distinguish between who to choose, when you reach the upper tier i.e. the BIG FISH then your degree counts. Now for those of you who think im talking codswallop, I have personally been fortunate enough to mingle and work with VP's and MD's of a TOP ESTABLISHED INTERNATIONAL company, every single one said to me forget about work for the moment make sure you get your degree/finish your studies. These people weren't some average Dept Managers these were people who ran companies.

PS. When I talk about degrees I mean top end degrees and also degrees count for a lot in the international communities.

Every sinle person who has made an argument here has almost universally focused on the beginning of the work ladder, and then 'work your way up' life isn't that simple, one minute you have a job next minute your made redundant. A degree gives you an advantage simple as.

And ps I too once thought experience was all required when I started my job two years ago, and I remember a good friend of mine said, 'just get your degree done first'.

He failed to see the point, a degree wasn't something just to done, it was something to be earned and not just a paper to be gained. Two years on I can say im glad I earned my experience, but do I want to reach past the glass ceiling? Yes

[M4RN1]

With a degree there might not be jobs available. But after a longg time it will be available.

Most whitepeople are leaving UK and settling in spain greece etc, someone has to take their place

[MizzyBone]

Originally Posted by M4RN1 With a degree there might not be jobs available. But after a longg time it will be available. Most whitepeople are leaving UK and settling in spain greece etc, someone has to take their place

I wna go with them