Obey/Dis-obey GOD

[Lucy]

in islam god gave us the choice to obey or dis-obey HiM.

We as humans have free will,so we can CHOOSE to obey or dis-obey.

Now personally myself,im not that good of a muslim,i dont read namaaz or the quran anymore,but theres other stuff that i do,such as my kalmas(other prayers) and keep wu'du (the cleaning process).

Now theres some muslims i have come across who say they dont agree wth islam and they dont believe in god,they havent been offensive or gave me examples,or sed anythng to potray god or any of the prophets in a dis-respectful or offensve way.

That sort of does offend me tht been muslms themselves they choose to say they dont wana obey god,and bla bla.

BUT,end of day,no matter how bad they are sound i have never lectured them or branded them a kaafir(non muslim) i just pray for them that they are forgiven and god guides them on the correct path,but tht may or may not happen,duno,upto the person.


So my question been,wen god has gave us a choice to obey or dis-obey Him,then why do ppl start to brand them kaafirs and lecture them and start to get all offended?

Why cant ppl just pray for them and hope they come out of tht,rather than tell them they are gona go to hell?

Why do ppl do tht? Are you one of those who does tht?

Cause dont make sense to me.

[Kayz]

Nobody is allowed to call another muslim person a Kuffar/Kaffir, none of us know who actually is a Kuffar/Kaffir. Some people even use the term without knowing what Kuffar/Kaffir actually means!

We cant make people Kuffars/Kaffirs and it is a grave sin in itself to use it against another muslim.

Like you say its best to praise them, guide them etc

[MiSs]

Originally Posted by Lucy in islam god gave us the choice to obey or dis-obey HiM. We as humans have free will,so we can CHOOSE to obey or dis-obey. Now personally myself,im not that good of a muslim,i dont read namaaz or the quran anymore,but theres other stuff that i do,such as my kalmas(other prayers) and keep wu'du (the cleaning process). Now theres some muslims i have come across who say they dont agree wth islam and they dont believe in god,they havent been offensive or gave me examples,or sed anythng to potray god or any of the prophets in a dis-resoectuf or offensve way. That sort of does offend me tht been muslms themselves they choose to say they dont wana obey god,and bla bla. BUT,end of day,no matter how bad they are sound i have never lectured them or branded them a kaafir(non muslim) i just pray for them that they are forgiven and god guides them on the correct path,but tht may or may not happen,duno,upto the person. So my question been,wen god has gave us a choice to obey or dis-obey Him,then why do ppl start to brand them kaafirs and lecture them and start to get all offended? Why cant ppl just pray for them and hope they come out of tht,rather than tell them they are gona go to hell? Why do ppl do tht? Are you one of those who does tht? Cause dont make sense to me.

the people who do that are not "Muslims" so really dont understand why they would class themselves as one!!! (wierd )

naa I wouldnt brand them as Kaafirs. My couisons. not one in that particular family, believes in Islam (I know. shame) but Iv never forced them to believe.
that wouldnt be right of me as they have their own minds, and are old enough to decide for themselves.

Just given them advice, and everytime something religious came up in our convo's.
Id try make everything about Islam sound so positive. sometimes they'd agree.
sometimes argue. (most of the talk was about how they're sorry but they dont believe, but respect my views.... )

Although I could be a better Muslim as well. I dont do majorly big acts of sins.
and try my best to be as good as I can (still trying more)

Tbh though. I dont think its right for some one to class themself as muslim.
then say bad things aout the religion itself. make me really angry tht would

[MiSs]

Originally Posted by MiSs the people who do that are not "Muslims" so really dont understand why they would class themselves as one!!! (wierd ) naa I wouldnt brand them as Kaafirs. My couisons. not one in that particular family, believes in Islam (I know. shame) but Iv never forced them to believe. that wouldnt be right of me as they have their own minds, and are old enough to decide for themselves. Just given them advice, and everytime something religious came up in our convo's. Id try make everything about Islam sound so positive. sometimes they'd agree. sometimes argue. (most of the talk was about how they're sorry but they dont believe, but respect my views.... ) Although I could be a better Muslim as well. I dont do majorly big acts of sins. and try my best to be as good as I can (still trying more) Tbh though. I dont think its right for some one to class themself as muslim. then say bad things aout the religion itself. make me really angry tht would

(how gay quoting myself lol)

I duno if I was right saying what I did above. because no one really has a right to say whos muslim. and who isnt.

but if some one just uses the name. but believes in "nothing". how is that right?

[_Rehan_]

Ibn `Umar (May Allah be pleased with them) said: The Messenger of Allah (PBUH) said, "When a person calls his brother (in Islam) a disbeliever, one of them will certainly deserve the title. If the addressee is so as he has asserted, the disbelief of the man is confirmed, but if it is untrue, then it will revert to him.''

Abu Dharr (May Allah be pleased with him) said: I heard the Messenger of Allah (PBUH) saying, "If somebody accuses another of disbelief or calls him the enemy of Allah, such an accusation will revert to him (the accuser) if the accused is innocent.''

I've known many people that judge and lecture how religious another person is just to make themselves feel better about how devoted they are to Islam themselves. Its mostly people that havent fully learnt themselves how wrong and disrespecful it is to do so. Even if someone isn religious or openly says they dont believe in Islam, are born and bred a muslim, it is our role as muslim brothers/sisters to help them in whatever way we can, not by belittling them or tellin them how they must be or that they are doing wrong. U should make excuses for that person and do dua to help them instead of gunning them


Cant add to ma post (Kayz wil prob jump back in ere in a quick minute now im double postin lol)

People used to judge me al da time, probably stil do. No one religious in ma fam, dad n bro both messed wid drugs, haraam money, shottin. etc. I was young, got involved in shit too but now im older, read ma namaaz 5 times a day, attend dhikrs, whatever i can because honestly deen is da answer to everythin, it purifies the soul n altho iv done som fuckd up tings and old habits stil do catch up wid me here n der da point is, back den no1 thought id take an interest in Islam, used to be lectured and told i was na rot in hell. Lol now i look back at those people n i see dem exactly how i used to be. People change. U cant judge.. U can only hope dey get better n do dua for dem

[Rab C Nesbit]

They don't believe but they still call themselves Muslims?

The word Muslim means one who submits to God, doesn't it?
So, only those who follow God's orders can call themselves Muslim.

However, I so don't agree with Holier That Thou attitudes.
End of the day, God is The Judge.
Who are we to make comments about who is kaafir and who is a munafiq etc etc..

What I also don't like is those people who waste their energy trying to make individuals accept the religion and follow it, when clearly they've made the decision that they're not going to follow it.
I understand if someone's just a bit misguided, you can chat to them and see what's making them do whatever they're doing, and possibly suggest using religion to get back to proper order and stuff.
But when someone has concientiously (sp?) made the decision to move away from religion you have to respect it, and back off.

Religion works for some people, and not for others.
It's an individual thing.
Who are we to judge?

[MiSs]

I personally dont think its right for some one who classes themselves as muslim and
does not believe a single teaching of the quran or Allah (swt)

even if you've been born bred a muslim. if you dont believe in Islam watsoever and only have bad things to say about it.
dont class yourself as one.

I think to call yourself Muslim (my personal oppinion) you have to "atleast" believe there is no god but Allah (swt)....atleast?

[Memphis]

Originally Posted by Rab C Nesbit What I also don't like is those people who waste their energy trying to make individuals accept the religion and follow it, when clearly they've made the decision that they're not going to follow it.

That is true...their are some people no matter how much you invite them to Islam they will never accept it...there path is writtern and it's out of choice.

[_Rehan_]

Originally Posted by Rab C Nesbit Religion works for some people, and not for others. It's an individual thing.

Ere, i agree with most of wa u said before dis bit.

Its not an individual thing wen it coms to Islam. Ummah, a nation, a community, a brotherhood. We know Islam is THE religion, it is THE way of life. So it WILL work if u submit urself to it. Allah swt has promised If u remember him, he WILL remember u. I dont see how it doesn work for som1 unles they let themselvs be led astray. In which case those who do believe would be able to help and pray that Allah swt guides them towards the right path.

[Enchantress]

Watched this programme once... called "the funny thing about Ramadhan" done by this comedian woman called Ayesha Hazarika....

She's in her 30's or whatever, n keeping her first fast... basically to give her material for her stand-up shows.. I watched it, in the hope that she might get something more from it... but she's doing her stand-up show, calling herself a Muslim, but then follows that by saying she eats bacon, gets drunk, and doesn't really know if she believes in God...

That made me kinda upset... cos the majority of her audience in the show were white... made me think they might generalise and think all Muslims do the same stuff...

Wouldn't make me brand her a "kaafir" though... you're not even supposed to call Christian's/Jews kaafir, as they're still people of the Book...

But yeah, that woman annoys me

[_Rehan_]

Originally Posted by Memphis That is true...their are some people no matter how much you invite them to Islam they will never accept it...there path is writtern and it's out of choice.

Paths are written, yes.. and we hav also been given the knowledge and the abilty to make decisions. We know right from wrong so we can change it, it is a choice.

They say everyone goes through various stages of changes in their life and I suppose I am no exception. If I was asked to sum up my different stages of change, I would probably divide my life into three parts. The first part, the first 27 years of my life, would be what Malays (and Muslims as well) would call the jahil (ignorant) stage. That was when I did not pray, never for one minute stopped to think about God, drank beer, played Gin Rummy, and indulged in all form and manner of ’sin’ that you can think of. Somehow, the consumption of pork was never one of those ’sins’ though, for whatever reason I still can’t figure out until today. When I touched 27 or 28, I suddenly ’saw the light’ and became a ‘born-again’ Muslim. I used to jokingly tell my friends I was never born a Muslim but masuk Islam (converted to Islam) at the age of 27. From then on, I ‘fast-forward’ to catch up on all that I had missed the first 27 years of my life. I went to Mekah ten times or so, twice for the Haj and the rest for my Umrah (small Haj). I sat down and started reading the Quran and within a few weeks was able to rattle away like one who had learnt to read the Quran at the age of five. Raja Petra Shmarrred in Chambana-land

[MiSs]

Originally Posted by Enchantress Watched this programme once... called "the funny thing about Ramadhan" done by this comedian woman called Ayesha Hazarika.... She's in her 30's or whatever, n keeping her first fast... basically to give her material for her stand-up shows.. I watched it, in the hope that she might get something more from it... but she's doing her stand-up show, calling herself a Muslim, but then follows that by saying she eats bacon, gets drunk, and doesn't really know if she believes in God... That made me kinda upset... cos the majority of her audience in the show were white... made me think they might generalise and think all Muslims do the same stuff... Wouldn't make me brand her a "kaafir" though... you're not even supposed to call Christian's/Jews kaafir, as they're still people of the Book... But yeah, that woman annoys me

oh yeah I watched that program... was a waste of time to be honest

[_Rehan_]

Originally Posted by Enchantress Watched this programme once... called "the funny thing about Ramadhan" done by this comedian woman called Ayesha Hazarika.... She's in her 30's or whatever, n keeping her first fast... basically to give her material for her stand-up shows.. I watched it, in the hope that she might get something more from it... but she's doing her stand-up show, calling herself a Muslim, but then follows that by saying she eats bacon, gets drunk, and doesn't really know if she believes in God... That made me kinda upset... cos the majority of her audience in the show were white... made me think they might generalise and think all Muslims do the same stuff... Wouldn't make me brand her a "kaafir" though... you're not even supposed to call Christian's/Jews kaafir, as they're still people of the Book... But yeah, that woman annoys me

Forget bou her religion or callin her kaafir, wha eva. Put it simply, she a silly bitch

[Enchantress]

Originally Posted by MiSs oh yeah I watched that program... was a waste of time to be honest

I found it so, so ridiculous, but I made myself watch it, cos I thought maybe she'd learn something from the whole experience... just maybe she'd see there's more to life... she even went n had iftaar with a couple who had converted/reverted (I duno which one to use ) to Islam, n they were there talking to her n answering her questions...

But in her stand-up show she was jus takin the pish, talking about how hungry she was n how she could never starve herself again like that reh reh... n she ended the show with something like "my mum would be dead proud"... wish someone had explained to her that fasting isn't for your parents

To what Rehan said... I don't get truly angered much by people like that often (somewhat annoyed of course..), but considering she's in the public eye, showing off what she does and how she does it... then yeah, I'd want to beat her senseless with her mic.. Ahem...

[Zero]

Originally Posted by _Rehan_ Ere, i agree with most of wa u said before dis bit. Its not an individual thing wen it coms to Islam. Ummah, a nation, a community, a brotherhood. We know Islam is THE religion, it is THE way of life. So it WILL work if u submit urself to it. Allah swt has promised If u remember him, he WILL remember u. I dont see how it doesn work for som1 unles they let themselvs be led astray. In which case those who do believe would be able to help and pray that Allah swt guides them towards the right path.

Exaclty. Its stupid to say that.

I hear too many people saying "Oh its a relationship between me and god".

LOL snap outta it. God has ordained it and you follow it. Theres no excuse for ignorance and/or arrogance.