Sex & The Ummah: Innocence Lost

[Zero]

Quite a good read for Muslims of modern times; I found this on another site:

Sex & the Ummah: Innocence Lost | MuslimMatters.org

If you're not bothered reading, then I've picked out three paragraphs that interested me and made me lol:

Another problem that I know many parents struggle with is trying to teach their kids that the pictures of half-naked men and women on advertisements, billboards, TV, etc. are not acceptable Islamically. I believe that this issue is related to the point above: having respect for other people’s bodies. A somewhat uncomfortable question that younger kids might bring up (usually at most inopportune moments!) is something along the lines of, “Mama, why is that lady not wearing any clothes?” or “Baba, why is that man in his underwear?”

Know that first of all, we don’t cover our bodies because we’re ashamed of it - rather, we’re proud of it and respect it. Allah created us in the best of ways, with body parts that both look good (well… mostly!) and perform neccessary functions. However, just ‘cuz we look good doesn’t mean that we should be showing it off to the whole world! (BTW, this goes for men also - please, no Speedos! Those don’t even look good.)

...have respect and shyness for their bodies. Don’t look at what’s not permissable to look at; don’t behave in a manner that’s contrary to the entire concept of hayaa’. Lower your gaze and have good manners. Far too often have I seen hijaabi girls giggling over a model, actor, or even a brother at a community function; similarly, stories about men ogling hijaabis or drooling over non-Muslim women disgust me because that’s NOT how a Muslim is supposed to act at any time, towards anyone.

Discuss if need be.

[Gubi_T]

I am not a muslim, but yeah humankind as a whole has just let standards drop to new lows...we should all refrain from vulgar behaviour on moral grounds but people have become weak, most can not resist the smallest of temptations nowadays

[Guji-Ji]

Awesome article. Got to agree!

Sigh.. what can we do.. It's the state of the Ummah.

[PaKi PwInCeSs]

I say ' Respect your body as you would want someone else to respect it'..

[sweetsoul]

that's a good article...

one thing i would like to add on...


...to be honest i also find it quite cheap to see women or men exposing themselves like this....

but as they say...the devil is on top of your head 24/7


there is a person inside you which we call "zameer" in urdu...i don't know what it is called in english...

our zameer is the good person inside us...

when we are aheading to do something wrong, our zameer tells us not to do it...we get a feeling that it is wrong

but sometimes we go against our feelings and do the wrong...once we do the wrong...our zameer dies...there is no good person left inside us who can make us feel guilty or bad

once we do something bad we carry on doing it again and again

and i don't think its any use telling those people about right or wrong ... because it won't effect them unless God showers his blessings upon them...



it is pretty difficult to bring up children islamically in a country like uk
because the culture, media, environment all have more than 80% influence on them...whereas parents can only influence thier kids by about 20%

i often find it really amusing to see people who have lost faith in religion...even God....
and sometimes it's even worse when people say they are muslim but tend to do everything against islam...for example smoking, drinking, relations with the opposite sex...

but then again i think these are the clues related to the "day of judgement"

[Zero]

The youth are at crossroads. If you have left wing views then you will be absorbed by the western influence. I mean, theres nothinn wrong with it because belief is all in perspective. But religion isn't in perspective and thats the thing a lot of youth these days forget. It's usually about having fun and not even thinking about anything productive, let-alone anything spiritual.

If you have right-wing views then you're considered backwards.

From a young age, they need to be taught the value of procrastination...because that alone is healthy and encourages them to think on their feet rather than being spoonfed...probably explains why converts to a religion are more observant of their duties than a child born into that religion.

[MiSs]

Originally Posted by Zero The youth are at crossroads. If you have left wing views then you will be absorbed by the western influence. I mean, theres nothinn wrong with it because belief is all in perspective. But religion isn't in perspective and thats the thing a lot of youth these days forget. It's usually about having fun and not even thinking about anything productive, let-alone anything spiritual. If you have right-wing views then you're considered backwards. From a young age, they need to be taught the value of procrastination...because that alone is healthy and encourages them to think on their feet rather than being spoonfed... probably explains why converts to a religion are more observant of their duties than a child born into that religion.

I agree with you

Originally Posted by SweetSoul it is pretty difficult to bring up children islamically in a country like uk because the culture, media, environment all have more than 80% influence on them...whereas parents can only influence thier kids by about 20%

Im so scared when i do actually go on to have kids what they gonna turn out like

I know a family in london. the guy doesnt let his kids watch Tv. only dvds of religious children programmes (they got stacks) and the kids are so so innocent (mashallah)

They go to private schools, and when they do go out to family/friends house.
They aint allowed to listen to music, or watch tv without mum bieng there....

My sister spoke to the kids and asked them. Dont you ever get bored without tv an that? and they replied - hardly ever, they have many religious books, schoolwork ect to occupy their minds. now an then they do have days out with mum and dad.

The way they spoke. one was 9. so so mature for their age, and so so modest.

Because they dont have a Tv. they dont want to do everything other people are doing. nothing or no one corrupting their mind.
Some people might say its "cruel" limiting them from outside life. but they looked happy to me, all cute an smily. safer in a way. and clearly had more better understanding then the average 9year old in some of the things they spoke about.

My sister. she asked the dad (who teaches at their local mosque) are you always going to limit them from the outside world, and never let them watch tv? he was like. No.

When they old enough to know right from wrong, he will let them.
By then even if they did see a women/man on tv half naked. because of the way they been brought up. they would probaly end up changing the channel by their own choice. because that wouldnt be "normal" to them.

(from a muslim point of view) I think what hes doing may be working. Kids seem happy.
and look like they will turn out to be good human biengs.
Im not saying its completly right as obviously some people may disagree with the no tv ect part. but oh well. thats what hes chosen to do.

dunno if it would work out in all cases, restricting from everything. might turn out to be opposite an make them worse because they'l do everything thats forbidden behind your back? hmm. duno.

[sweetsoul]

yea...he is doing the right thing

i was brought up like that...but we had tv lol

i wasn't allowed to go to a friend's house, i wasn't allowed to go out with friends...i wasn't allowed to call a friend without my mum/dad being there in front of me

i was only given a mobile fone when i used to go to skool...then i had to hand it over to my parents when i was at home

my skool bag used to get checked evryday lol

i wasn't allowed to watch tv at night time
i wasn't allowed to be awake till late night
i wasn't allowed to listen to songs...all my friends had a cd player and i didn't

i wasn't even allowed to fetch something from the shops nearby...

i wasn't allowed to use the internet in their absence
i am so used to telling my parents about every small thing

to be honest sometimes when i seen my friends and other girls who didn't have all those restrictions on them...i used to feel upset and think to myself why do my parents do that to me

but now that i have grown up...i see those same girls have exploited themselves and wrecked their lives...they're always stuck into sum kind of mess....i thank my parents for being so strict to me

now offcourse i don't have all those restrictions on me because my parents trust me enough and they know i would never do anything wrong...

now they tell me to enjoy my life...go out with friends(only during daytime) and do things i want to do...but they say...never do anything that will lower our heads...and i will never let them down...i have promised them, myself and Allah
and inshallah Allah will help me walk on the right path always

i only have 1 dream now...i want to get married and be loved by that sum1 special

sori if i went off topic a little bit

[MiSs]

Some of the stuff you mentioned you werent allowed to do, I wasnt either lol

When I was really really young, wasnt even allowed to wear english/western clothes.
But then a cuzon of mine rebelled and we were allowed. as long as we were modestly dressed we could wear any type of clothing. english/western or traditional.

Wear a mix of both type of clothes now. but always fully covered. wether im home, or out shopping ect.

Was never allowed to go out with mates. lol but think it was easier as we live ina white area so most of my mates were white.
Some may think its pretty sad. but Iv never been to a mates birthday party when I was young. lol . wasnt allowed.

Dad aint highly religious. Moderate. but was so so strict on us back then. and yeah. Im glad he was.

Now. have more freedom then back then. but I chose not to do the things I was forbidden to do. lol.

(Was allowed Tv tho. but guess tv wasnt as corruptive back then as it is now.)

and LOL @ going off topic. I know theres some (corrupted) people out there who dont believe people can be all good. and not want to do bad stuff. They cant believe it because they base their oppinions on their own thoughts an behaviour (their own wants). lol.
so cant accept people can be goody goody. because they could never be. lol.

(iv lol'd alot in this post )

[Rab C Nesbit]

Originally Posted by Zero From a young age, they need to be taught the value of procrastination...because that alone is healthy and encourages them to think on their feet rather than being spoonfed...probably explains why converts to a religion are more observant of their duties than a child born into that religion.

Dude.
I'm lost.
Procrastination?
To put off doing something until later?
I can't link the two things you've said in that paragraph together, sorry.

My parents were very restrictive with me and my older sister, and even now I hear Dad saying he was lenient with us and wanted to be more strict.
I had no idea of what was going on in the world...
Girls were making up dances to something called BoyZone, they were making their hair go crinkly which was apparently called Crimping.
Yea, my geography, history and knowledge of current affairs was pretty darn good for a 6/7 year old, but I didn't know about "private conversations" in the playground and all that stuff.
My parents even kept the fact that our mother was pregnant with our brother from us... because in some way, the knowledge of conception might corrupt us.
...and they're not the only parents from that background who do that.
Pregnancy was a taboo subject for a lot of families from the South Asian community until quite recently.

That's why, I tell my brother exactly what's what.
It's his choice whether he lets it ruin the person he is, or make him better.
He knows about swear words.
He knows about the birds and the bees... and I'd be pretty stupid to think that they don't talk about fannies and willies in the playground or the swimming pool.
But when he talks about things, you can tell that he's still decent.
You can't kiss unless you're in a long term relationship/marriage, or at the very least in love.
PDAs are absolutely offensive to people around them... If you want to do that, do it in private.
Swear words aren't good, neither for children nor adults; however, it's acceptable for an adult to swear, if they wish.
All of that came from me being open with him.

Sheltering children from these things isn't going to do anything.
It's like back in the 80's, when Sex Ed was the gym teacher telling you that the best form of contraception is not to go anywhere near the other sex.

It's best to tell them what's what, and educate them about it.
Keeping them locked up is just messed up.
You might as well "Genie" them.

[Zero]

Originally Posted by Rab C Nesbit Dude. I'm lost. Procrastination? To put off doing something until later? I can't link the two things you've said in that paragraph together, sorry. My parents were very restrictive with me and my older sister, and even now I hear Dad saying he was lenient with us and wanted to be more strict. I had no idea of what was going on in the world... Girls were making up dances to something called BoyZone, they were making their hair go crinkly which was apparently called Crimping. Yea, my geography, history and knowledge of current affairs was pretty darn good for a 6/7 year old, but I didn't know about "private conversations" in the playground and all that stuff. My parents even kept the fact that our mother was pregnant with our brother from us... because in some way, the knowledge of conception might corrupt us. ...and they're not the only parents from that background who do that. Pregnancy was a taboo subject for a lot of families from the South Asian community until quite recently. That's why, I tell my brother exactly what's what. It's his choice whether he lets it ruin the person he is, or make him better. He knows about swear words. He knows about the birds and the bees... and I'd be pretty stupid to think that they don't talk about fannies and willies in the playground or the swimming pool. But when he talks about things, you can tell that he's still decent. You can't kiss unless you're in a long term relationship/marriage, or at the very least in love. PDAs are absolutely offensive to people around them... If you want to do that, do it in private. Swear words aren't good, neither for children nor adults; however, it's acceptable for an adult to swear, if they wish. All of that came from me being open with him. Sheltering children from these things isn't going to do anything. It's like back in the 80's, when Sex Ed was the gym teacher telling you that the best form of contraception is not to go anywhere near the other sex. It's best to tell them what's what, and educate them about it. Keeping them locked up is just messed up. You might as well "Genie" them.

Hm. I used the wrong word; I usually use it exchangeable with the word ponder or reflect...cos thats what I usually do when "procrastinating". Excuse the vocab mash-up! What I meant by that is that kids should learn to think. Like, give time part of the day to think about things...flex their memory ask questions and the like. Thats surely going to help them make the right decision for themselves! Its not just to one religion, but to all walks of life, that will help them I think. Not much attention is given to "thinking" these days but to "doing".

I think the key thing is balance. Sheltering them is not good of course, but thats vague in a sense, depending on what actually is being sheltered...filtered would be more appropriate don't you think?

Most religions don't really say what age the kid's should be taught about the bird's and the bee's. Its up to parental judgement right? Whether the kid be taught at an early age or a late age, its soleley the parents job. But thats hardly the case these days because kids figure it out anyway, and the parents count on it that their kids know anyway.

I agree with you, kid's shouldn't be forced to do anything, its one of the most concrete facts of life that a kids going to rebel if he's forced to do something. Teaching them and educating them is the right step, and after all, one of the best joys of being a parent. (as a matter of speaking).

[Guji-Ji]

I agree with you Rab on the point about sheltering them too much. It's a big bad world out there and over sheltering means you won't survive.

A minor yet I think effective example is me and my brother. We come from a religious family compared to others and talking to females while not a crraaaaaaaaaazy omg ill kill you no-no it is discouraged by our parents(notably my dad) however my bro goes to a boys school so don't think he'll be experiencing girls first hand till he leaves that but he knows I have female friends and while I don't talk to them in front of him the fact he knows, means someday when he sees his big brother who he thought was always religious and someone to look up to he won't be like 'omg bhais talking to a girl, if he can do it im sleeping around!' Bit extreme I know but you get my point.
The fact he knows and accepts it means he will (hopefully) be open about his friends, males and females, to me and a trust is built.

[sweetsoul]

Originally Posted by MiSs Some of the stuff you mentioned you werent allowed to do, I wasnt either lol When I was really really young, wasnt even allowed to wear english/western clothes. But then a cuzon of mine rebelled and we were allowed. as long as we were modestly dressed we could wear any type of clothing. english/western or traditional.

yea that was the same for me...i wasn't allowed to wear any tight or exposing clothes ... my parents used to be reli strict about it

Originally Posted by MiSs Some may think its pretty sad. but Iv never been to a mates birthday party when I was young. lol . wasnt allowed.

to be honest i have never been to a party either...apart from the family parties that we have

Originally Posted by MiSs Dad aint highly religious. Moderate. but was so so strict on us back then. and yeah. Im glad he was. Now. have more freedom then back then. but I chose not to do the things I was forbidden to do. lol. (Was allowed Tv tho. but guess tv wasnt as corruptive back then as it is now.)

true...tv that time was less bold than today

Originally Posted by MiSs and LOL @ going off topic. I know theres some (corrupted) people out there who dont believe people can be all good. and not want to do bad stuff. They cant believe it because they base their oppinions on their own thoughts an behaviour (their own wants). lol. so cant accept people can be goody goody. because they could never be. lol.

that's quite true what u said...but reli we shuld always remember that wht is important is that we avoid doing the wrong ... rather than trying to persuade people to beliv tht we r good afterall...we are doing that for ourselves and for Allah

Originally Posted by MiSs iv lol'd alot in this post )

lol

[Scrooge]

islamically, parents should tell there children about sex, coz its upon every muslim to gain knowledge.

but its also duty of the parents to build up there childs imaan and taqwa (fear of god), thats why a muslim woman plays a huge role in a childs upbringing. its duty upon the muslim parents to bring up there children on the basis of islam. a child needs to be taught that all there actions are recorded and that they are accountable for all there actions till the day they die. a strong imaan and taqwa, will make it that little bit easier for the child growing up in this society.

sex should be taught to kids, but within the boundaries of islam. telling them about puberty, marriage, the dos and donts, sex before marriage etc, relationships before marriage etc. these issues need to be addressed in a way that the islamic identity is so strong, that when the child comes into society he can refrain from all the crap thas goin on around them, based on imaaan and taqwa.

the parent should never shy away from the issue but instead tackle it head on and use islam as a reference point.

unfortunatley alot of muslims have gone astray and will hit on anything that moves, sad but true, they even hit on hijaabis, which is taking the piss, as the hijaab is there to protect they modesty of the woman. muslims need to get with the times and get a bit of knowledge in there heads.

they taking on knowledge thats taking them away from islam...

[Guji-Ji]

Originally Posted by Scrooge islamically, parents should tell there children about sex, coz its upon every muslim to gain knowledge. but its also duty of the parents to build up there childs imaan and taqwa (fear of god), thats why a muslim woman plays a huge role in a childs upbringing. its duty upon the muslim parents to bring up there children on the basis of islam. a child needs to be taught that all there actions are recorded and that they are accountable for all there actions till the day they die. a strong imaan and taqwa, will make it that little bit easier for the child growing up in this society. sex should be taught to kids, but within the boundaries of islam. telling them about puberty, marriage, the dos and donts, sex before marriage etc, relationships before marriage etc. these issues need to be addressed in a way that the islamic identity is so strong, that when the child comes into society he can refrain from all the crap thas goin on around them, based on imaaan and taqwa. the parent should never shy away from the issue but instead tackle it head on and use islam as a reference point. unfortunatley alot of muslims have gone astray and will hit on anything that moves, sad but true, they even hit on hijaabis, which is taking the piss, as the hijaab is there to protect they modesty of the woman. muslims need to get with the times and get a bit of knowledge in there heads. they taking on knowledge thats taking them away from islam...

Some hijabis don't help you know...