Interview Zanjeer

[zanjeer]

do you believe in a deity ?

I would describe myself as more 'spiritual' then religious'.

Yes I do believe in a deity, and yes I'd describe myself as spiritual too.

How long did it take you to do your research that made you leave Islam?

It was a gradual process throughout my life, I can’t put a time on it.

The huge difference between you and rab is rab has left Islam to but although she questions she don't tend to go on a crusade in fighting against Islam..

what made you go on this crusade in the e-world and even in real life as you did mention you go to certan islamic events, (I guess this is to do with why you left?)
note: Not trying to use the word crusade offensivley

We all have our interests and we all engage in debates that we feel we can contribute to. It just so happens that I can contribute a lot to discussions involving Islam, and I choose to do that because I want to.

What do you feel you get out of you debating on islam with other muslims?

Debate is a good. It’s good to debate, especially in fields which interest you. You can clarify things, share knowledge, gain knowledge, and generally become a more informed human being.

Why is Islam STILL a huge part of your life? I mean i no your not practising it but you stil engage in it, even if it is in a negative way... it's still centre to who you are? right?

Islam will always be a part of my life. I was a Muslim afterall, and I take a deep interest in Islam. I take a deep interest in other things too. I’m planning to go Saudi Arabia some time too. It’ll be interesting to visit the place where it all began.

Some people enjoy learning/discussion WW2, or biology, or econonics, or fashion, or the Romans, or classical music, or the French Revolution. I happen to enjoy learning/discussing Islam.

[zanjeer]

I would like to know what you think will become of you in the afterlife; if you believe in it: when you die is it curtains or is there some continuation?

I don’t know what will happen to me after I die, just like I don’t know whether aliens exist in outer space.

Although I don’t know, that doesn’t stop me from pondering. Personally I’d like to think that there is continuation after life, but nothing eternal.

There is no shame in saying “I don’t know”.

A Muslims way of saying “I don’t know” is... “Allah knows!”.
My way of saying “I don’t know” is... “I don’t know”.

I’ll tell you what I don’t believe will happen though. I don’t believe that non-Muslims will be burned in the hellfire for all eternity for rejecting Islam.

And what do you think of sea-turtles?

eh?

Oh and one more thing. Do you believe in Sex before Marraige? In a previous post it clearly suggests that you don't believe in it. You failed to explain why, so can I have the answer now?

Don’t draw any conclusions from the answers I gave to your stupid kama sutra questions. When I said “kama sutra with wife = good, kama sutra with anyone else = bad”… maybe I was looking at it from the perspective of a married man. For a married man, kama sutra with anyone else WOULD be bad.

As to whether I believe in sex before marriage, this can’t be answered with a simple yes or no. It all depends on the individuals and circumstances. Ideally I do think that two young people who are about to get married should wait until they’re actually married before they do the deed. That's the way it should idealy be imo. That would be, like, perfection.

Do you believe in sex before marriage incredible?

i know a few years ago there was a muslim family (in lancashire/yorkshire i think), that converted 2 christianity, and then they were targeted by the muslim community for it.... likewise, have have u found urself on the recieving end of some kinda hate by muslims that know ur no longer interested in being muslim?

The Muslim community don’t know that I left Islam. If they did then I’d imagine that some of them would target me (verbally of physically) or they’d give my family grief.

Only one Muslim knows that I left Islam. She’s a really good friend of mine (I fancy her too).

We’ve had many heated religious discussions, but we also respectfully separate our religious discussions from our non-religious discussions.

Everybody else who knows that I left Islam is either an ex-Muslim too (eg my Iranian friend) or they’re non-Muslims.

on the other hand, when some ppl have a negative view on islam, do u (as a third person), feel the need to stand up 4 it n defend with what knowledge u do have from when u were a muslim or do u just let it be, thinking its not u nomore so it dsnt matter?

If somebody has an unjustified negative view on Islam then I’d correct them. Otherwise, if their negative view is justified then I’d agree with them.

[misssmiley12]

Have you actually left the religion completely? so you dont actaully refer back to it for anything?

When Muslims say Allah knows It doesnt actaully mean that they dont know, maybe the dont want to know but they are content knowing that Allah knows. Maybe they know and truely believe that Allah knows. You cant actually say that a muslim says Allah knows because the muslim doesnt know.

[jellytots.]

I think this thread is good. Rather than people bashin' each other and ruining perfectly good threads. We're all entitled to our own opinion.
Anyway..
I cant say I've been fully following the never-ending saga on here about you leaving Islam, but I'm still curious.

1) When, God willing, you have children, how will you bring them up religion-wise? How would you go about religion and would you leaving Islam influence how you'd teach them about religion in any way?

2) To what extent do you believe in the basic structure of morality that Islam offers?

3) Like I said, I haven't been following it all that much, so sorry if you're repeating yourself.. Whats the main feature/ideology of Islam that you disagree with most?

4) Would you ever return to Islam?

[mindstate]

really good thread...i respect zanjeer for sharing his views on religion....there are many people out there who claim to be part of a religion, but seldom do they follow its teachings or behave piously...

[zanjeer]

Have you actually left the religion completely? so you dont actaully refer back to it for anything?

Yep, I’ve left it completely in the sense that I don’t believe it’s true at all. Therefore I obviously don’t refer to it for any guidance.

When Muslims say Allah knows It doesnt actaully mean that they dont know, maybe the dont want to know but they are content knowing that Allah knows. Maybe they know and truely believe that Allah knows. You cant actually say that a muslim says Allah knows because the muslim doesnt know.

With all due respect, it does mean that they don’t know. That’s why instead of giving the answer, they pass the buck to Allah and say “Allah knows”.

I think this thread is good. Rather than people bashin' each other and ruining perfectly good threads. We're all entitled to our own opinion.
Anyway..
I cant say I've been fully following the never-ending saga on here about you leaving Islam, but I'm still curious.

I started off just replying in threads that everybody else replied in, but then the attention turned on me and I obviously got inundated with questions about MY beliefs. In the beginning I made the effort to answer them, eg in this thread, but because it kept on happening in almost every other thread and kept on veering the original discussion off-topic, I guess a separate “interview zanjeer” thread was inevitable.

1) When, God willing, you have children, how will you bring them up religion-wise? How would you go about religion and would you leaving Islam influence how you'd teach them about religion in any way?

Good question. I will definitely make them aware of Islam and the etiquettes which are generally prevalent in Muslim communities, but I obviously won’t teach them that they have to believe in Islam.

I’d focus on science/reason, good manners, humanism, and maybe a bit of non-religious spirituality thrown in. It’s good and healthy to ponder about what may be “out there”, but you can do that without believing in religions.

2) To what extent do you believe in the basic structure of morality that Islam offers?

I came to realise that Islam doesn’t actually offer the structure of morality that I thought it offered.

3) Like I said, I haven't been following it all that much, so sorry if you're repeating yourself.. Whats the main feature/ideology of Islam that you disagree with most?

There are many many things I disagree with, but I guess the main ones are the condemnation of disbelievers, the harsh punishments for petty sins, the impractical lifestyle that we’re obliged to live which I believe has hindered the progress of Muslim societies, and the unscientific aspects of the religion.

4) Would you ever return to Islam?

No.

[shelim]

There are many many things I disagree with, but I guess the main ones are the condemnation of disbelievers, the harsh punishments for petty sins, the impractical lifestyle that we’re obliged to live which I believe has hindered the progress of Muslim societies, and the unscientific aspects of the religion.

What is it that you think is so impractical to live by?

Another question...

If you believe that Islam is so wrong, why is it the case that your on the internet trying to prove that islam is wrong but letting your family believe in Islam, should your family not have the right to know how wrong islam is too?

[misssmiley12]

As a disbeliever you surely cant say that, for you dont know whether a muslim says that because they dont know. Unless you have proof that the reason they say it is because they truely dont know then go ahead. Many muslims say it because their belief is in Allah. You cant also base it on one muslim there a thousands and thousands out their in the world you dont know what each one thinks.
I agree with the above comment. If your so against the religion why not tell your family, who are with the religion. It stares you in the face everyday wouldn't you rather be rid properly instead of watching and listening your family talk about it?

[Spider Pig]

I don't see why telling his family is such a big deal, everyone who is not naive will know the issues it could cause, the hurt for his family and possible fall outs, why go through with that? it's common for people leaving religions to be frowned upon in their community (whatever religion that may be) and it causes a lot of distress for them and their family.

I personally wouldn't tell my family or community either, it will break up a lot of friendships too probably. Just because one doesn't believe in the same path as another doesn't mean he should be an outcast, unless of course he is spreading hate towards the religion.

If the guy was on the streets preaching against his previous religion through hate then he should be made an example of but if not then let him be. Of course it's our duty to question a person who has left our religion (I wouldn't understand why anyone would leave Sikhism, unless they misunderstand it or don't have the will to follow it) but it depends on his actions after that will determine my reaction.

[incredible]

IN summary what Zanjeer has said 'I'm a pussy in real life and a Big man on the Internet' lol

[DJ B4VVY]

I don't care what you all think but I haven't told my family about me not believing in my religion either and yes I do get forced to do religious stuff and I just do it for the sake of my family.

[jellytots.]

I’d focus on science/reason, good manners, humanism, and maybe a bit of non-religious spirituality thrown in. It’s good and healthy to ponder about what may be “out there”, but you can do that without believing in religions.

Does science/reason rate high on the list of things to teach them?
Granted, it goes without saying that science helps us understand the very fibre of life, but science is limited by the potential of our own knowledge? Which at times, is flawed. As is human reason, which is probably even more so?
Thats where I feel religion and science differ. Religion in its own original sense, is pure. Its how people have come to misinterpret it which makes it all so flawed.
I'd be interested to know what you think!

There are many many things I disagree with, but I guess the main ones are the condemnation of disbelievers, the harsh punishments for petty sins, the impractical lifestyle that we’re obliged to live which I believe has hindered the progress of Muslim societies, and the unscientific aspects of the religion.

Whats your idea of progress? Do you have a real model of society that you could compare the progress of Muslim societies with? Apart from Saudi, when I was ridiculously young, I have yet to be immersed in a Muslim country as an adult.. so I'm not so sure about this one.

I don't see why telling his family is such a big deal, everyone who is not naive will know the issues it could cause, the hurt for his family and possible fall outs, why go through with that? it's common for people leaving religions to be frowned upon in their community (whatever religion that may be) and it causes a lot of distress for them and their family.

Ditto.
Lol at people taking the high ground on that matter. Its not a case of bad-man on the internet shite at all.

And Incredible, seriously? Everyone has brought their beliefs into this thread by merely questioning Zanjeer. Bav was making a comment. Stop making a freakin' mountain out of a molehill.
If you wanna quiz Bav that badly, make another thread of use PM. Quit thread-raping, its annoying.

[DJ Popz]

I gradually discovered more and more things about Islam which I disagreed with, felt uncomfortable with, and things which completely go against common sense/science.

Initially, you go through a phase of denial, or you try to rationalise some of these things… but you can only do that for so long.

Most Muslims are born into the religion of Islam. Initially, we are all ignorant believers. I eventually turned into a well informed disbeliever.

Ok could you be a bit more specific as to what things you disagreed with? What you replied with is very vague, I'd like details.

You mentioned that you were in denial and you tried rationalising things but could only for so long, so what tipped the balance for you? Would you say some people had an influence on you when you left?

Have you actually sat down and spoken to a scholar or imaam about your situation before you actually left the fold of Islam? I mean how do you know if you haven't misinterpreted things or have been confused by some of the things which led you to having second thoughts about Islam?

I mean did you go through this whole process by yourself or have any remote influence from any other? If so who?

I am not interrogating you if that's what it seems like with all these questions but I am genuinely interested in your whole transition process.

[Rab C Nesbit]

Incredible, I find your "tone" towards Bav quite offensive.

Zanjy... I'm curious.
Forget the elders, because they believe in Islam too much, but your friends and people you surround youself with, who are Muslims.
Surely, you try and tell them whether you think they're doing the wrong thing or not?
...or atleast have the desire to tell them.

Oh, and guess who's not an Islamic School Teacher anymore?

[Zero]

Seems like it's some big thing not to be one anymore, like you said in another post. You cannot contain your excitement eh?