Interview Zanjeer

[jellytots.]

I am not interrogating you if that's what it seems like with all these questions but I am genuinely interested in your whole transition process.

Ditto......

[shelim]

can we not spam please?

Another Question i has was, has you leaving Islam made an afect on how any of your friends see you?

[Maya]

Yep, I’ve left it completely in the sense that I don’t believe it’s true at all. Therefore I obviously don’t refer to it for any guidance.

With all due respect, it does mean that they don’t know. That’s why instead of giving the answer, they pass the buck to Allah and say “Allah knows”.

I started off just replying in threads that everybody else replied in, but then the attention turned on me and I obviously got inundated with questions about MY beliefs. In the beginning I made the effort to answer them, eg in this thread, but because it kept on happening in almost every other thread and kept on veering the original discussion off-topic, I guess a separate “interview zanjeer” thread was inevitable.

Good question. I will definitely make them aware of Islam and the etiquettes which are generally prevalent in Muslim communities, but I obviously won’t teach them that they have to believe in Islam.

I’d focus on science/reason, good manners, humanism, and maybe a bit of non-religious spirituality thrown in. It’s good and healthy to ponder about what may be “out there”, but you can do that without believing in religions.

I came to realise that Islam doesn’t actually offer the structure of morality that I thought it offered.

There are many many things I disagree with, but I guess the main ones are the condemnation of disbelievers, the harsh punishments for petty sins, the impractical lifestyle that we’re obliged to live which I believe has hindered the progress of Muslim societies, and the unscientific aspects of the religion.

No.

To be honest Zanjeer, from what you have written so far, your reasons for leaving islam appear to be a little vague to me so perhaps you could elaborate further. I am very intrigued by this. The two highlighted points above also particularly interest me. Firstly, what exactly do you regard as petty sins? Secondly, what are the harsh punishments attached to these petty sins and thirdly, what exactly do you mean by impractical lifestyle?

[Rab C Nesbit]

Off Topic:

Seems like it's some big thing not to be one anymore, like you said in another post. You cannot contain your excitement eh?

...it's a big deal for me, because as much as I white lie to adults, I can't lie to children.
It's not fair.
Especially when I'm put in that role and they all trust me.

...I'm still allowed to go in and help with songs and stories.

[zanjeer]

Sorry about the late reply guys, I had a busy week.

What is it that you think is so impractical to live by?

Praying 5 times a day is impractical imo. It’s possible and many Muslims do it, but it’s still impractical.

Prayer times fluctuate throughout the year as the days get longer/shorter and this interferes with healthy sleep patterns and work.

The average human being requires 8 hours of uninterrupted sleep.

In the summer Isha prayer is about 11pm, and then you only have a few hours to sleep until the Fajr prayer which is at 3:30am, and remember Muhammad recommended that you shouldn’t go back to sleep after Fajr.

Also, how is a person who works the night shift supposed to pray 5 times a day? Think about it.

In 7th century Arabia they had simple occupations like farming, trading etc. Nowadays there are many occupations which require night shift work. Paramedics, nursing, police, air traffic controllers etc.

I think the impracticality of praying 5 times a day is evident by the fact that the vast majority of Muslims in the world don’t do it, despite the fact that it is the 2nd most important pillar after shahadah.

I’d guess that less than 5% of Muslims pray 5 times a day, and of that 5% who pray 5 times, the vast majority are either retired, unemployed housewives, or pious taxi drivers with flexible work arrangements.

There can be no excuses either. Remember, praying 5 times a day is fard. It is not optional. It is a requirement. It is compulsory. Muhammad even said that the negligence of prayer separates the believer from the non-believer.

If you believe that Islam is so wrong, why is it the case that your on the internet trying to prove that islam is wrong but letting your family believe in Islam, should your family not have the right to know how wrong islam is too?

If your so against the religion why not tell your family, who are with the religion. It stares you in the face everyday wouldn't you rather be rid properly instead of watching and listening your family talk about it?

Two similar questions. Spider Pig wrote a good post about why it’s difficult to tell family.

Obviously people in my family differ in terms of how religious they are. I really need to gauge them and predict how they’d react. I don’t think I’d ever be able to tell my parents, but I’m quite sure that eventually I will tell some of my siblings/cousins.

If I noticed that my family were slowly slowly becoming more religious then there would be a sense of urgency and I’d probably do something drastic, but at the moment it’s just gonna take a bit of time.

As a disbeliever you surely cant say that, for you dont know whether a muslim says that because they dont know. Unless you have proof that the reason they say it is because they truely dont know then go ahead. Many muslims say it because their belief is in Allah. You cant also base it on one muslim there a thousands and thousands out their in the world you dont know what each one thinks.

When Muslims don’t now the answer to your question, saying “Allah knows” does the trick. I tend to say “I don’t know”.

I don't care what you all think but I haven't told my family about me not believing in my religion either and yes I do get forced to do religious stuff and I just do it for the sake of my family.

Same here. It shows that you love your family if you reluctantly do these things for their sake.

I don’t exactly enjoy waking up in the middle of my sleep every day during Ramadan for sehri, or pretending to pray, but I still do it.

Tbh it's only during Ramadan that I feel the pressure to act like a Muslim. It's not so bad for the rest of the year. Thankfully my family aren't too strict.

[zanjeer]

Ok could you be a bit more specific as to what things you disagreed with? What you replied with is very vague, I'd like details.

Ok I will go into detail:

I disagree with burning non-Muslims, or even threatening to burn non-Muslims in the hell fire.

I disagree with men being allowed to marry up to 4 wives (without the previous wives permission). In a world which has a 1:1 proportion of males:females, it is not a very good idea.

I disagree with chopping the hands of the thief.

I disagree with the Quran telling husbands to beat their wife if they fear disobedience.

I disagree with the fact that Islam considers a females testimony to be worth half of a males.

I disagree with slavery or trading in slaves.

I disagree with shirk being the biggest sin which is unforgivable. Using this logic, a peaceful polytheist Hindu is considered more sinful than someone who’s committed multiple thefts, murders, and rapes. Sure, praying to multiple idols isn’t exactly my thing, but how can it be considered the worst sin a man can ever commit?

I disagree with the death penalty for apostates, which is what Muhammad prescribed.

I disagree with stoning adulterers to death. If my wife committed adultery then I’d divorce the bitch. I wouldn’t want her to be stoned to death.

I disagree with child marriage or sex with children.

I disagree with flogging fornicators 100 times.

I (personally) disagree with praying in a language I don’t understand, or praying at set times. Prayer should be performed as and when required, and shouldn’t really get in the way of normal day to day activities like work or sleep. It should coinside

I disagree with creationism and the descriptions of the universe in the Quran.

I disagree with the prohibition of music. Music is creative and beautiful, not sinful.

I disagree with God asking mankind to fast from sunrise to sunset, because in some parts of the world (ie the northern hemisphere), the sun doesn’t set and they’ll experience 24 hours of daylight when Ramadhan is in June/July. Muhammad obviously didn’t know this.

I disagreed with the fact that I was only allowed to eat meat which was slaughtered by a fellow Muslim (this is one of the criteria for halal meat). Personally, I don’t care what religion the person who slaughtered my meat is. As long as they’re a human being and they follow health and safety procedures, it’s all good.




^ Those are some of the things I disagreed with or felt uncomfortable with.

If you’d like me to go into even more detail then please pick one of those things and I will be happy to discuss it further and provide references for each and every one of them.

Everything I’ve said about Islam can be checked, verified, and backed up. There are no “misconceptions” coming from me.

You mentioned that you were in denial and you tried rationalising things but could only for so long, so what tipped the balance for you? Would you say some people had an influence on you when you left?

I stopped practising in my teens and then I was sitting on the fence for a few years. The thing that tipped it for me was reading about other people who thought the same way as I did. Eventually I’m sure I would’ve reached this stage, but reading other ex-Muslim testimonies speeded up the process I guess.

Have you actually sat down and spoken to a scholar or imaam about your situation before you actually left the fold of Islam? I mean how do you know if you haven't misinterpreted things or have been confused by some of the things which led you to having second thoughts about Islam?

I know I’m not misinterpreting things. If I am then this can easily be exposed, but I’m not.

I’ve heard what various scholars and imams have to say about some of the things I disagreed with, and I’m not satisfied with the answers they give.

Without sounding arrogant, I’m well past the stage of seeking guidance from imams and scholars. I’m at the stage where I can give THEM guidance and point out the flaws in THEIR arguments.

I mean did you go through this whole process by yourself or have any remote influence from any other? If so who?

You hardly ever go through any process in your life by yourself. There are always some sort of external influences.

Having said that, the majority of it was by myself. Thankfully I have an inquisitive mind.

[zanjeer]

I'll answer the remaining questions tomorrow. Bedtime now... (-_-)

[shelim]

When did u become a scholar?

[incredible]

my question is ... at home , your area your a pu55y and when you come on here do you become an Internet hardman? lol

[mindstate]

[Tariq2009]

WOW Zanjeer you just completely owned everybody with that post, can't believe i missed it earlier.

The thing with followers of organized religion in particular Muslims is that they fail to understand that many people around the world see it differently, so they discriminate against somebody because they have a different perception. A person's faith with a deity is between him and the deity, not in the way organized religion wants you to interpret it. No religion has been brought as a friendly gesture without the condescending aggression. It’s always, ‘You gotta believe in my religion cos all the others are bullshit' and if you don't i'ma give you a derogatory label.

They say God made man in his own image, but it's man who constantly remakes God in HIS own image to suit some political, economic or moral standard/goal to project on others. F**k people who think it's ok to use religion as a manipulation tool for some self righteous agenda and their quest to make the world more like them

Religion when it's introduced to people, is hardly ever used to better they life. It's meant to subjugate and over power them. Just look at Sunni and Shiite, you see that their division comes from who would control the culture of Islam. That isn’t about the sanctity of the religion, that’s about who has the power.

[Zero]

WOW Zanjeer you just completely owned everybody with that post, can't believe i missed it earlier.

The thing with followers of organized religion in particular Muslims is that they fail to understand that many people around the world see it differently, so they discriminate against somebody because they have a different perception. A person's faith with a deity is between him and the deity, not in the way organized religion wants you to interpret it. No religion has been brought as a friendly gesture without the condescending aggression. It’s always, ‘You gotta believe in my religion cos all the others are bullshit' and if you don't i'ma give you a derogatory label.

They say God made man in his own image, but it's man who constantly remakes God in HIS own image to suit some political, economic or moral standard/goal to project on others. F**k people who think it's ok to use religion as a manipulation tool for some self righteous agenda and their quest to make the world more like them

Religion when it's introduced to people, is hardly ever used to better they life. It's meant to subjugate and over power them. Just look at Sunni and Shiite, you see that their division comes from who would control the culture of Islam. That isn’t about the sanctity of the religion, that’s about who has the power.

Firstly you can't even say anything regarding the "Sunni" and "Shiite" conflicts. As you said:

you see that their division comes from who would control the culture of Islam

So its obvious you don't know how the issue even started? I would neg rep you but I don't want to waste it on a post that so full of BS(highlighted in red), stereotype (highlighted in green) and misinformation about organized religion (highlighted in purple). It's insulting to the rep system to even do that. You seem to post and then when asked a question disappear for a period of time and then reappear spouting the same bullshit again? Whats the plan? You're not making yourself seem very clever on this board, which you probably aren't. You should stick to what you do best and keep pestering...erm I mean acquainting yourself with every other female member on here.

[Tariq2009]

Zero, I like the way you cuts parts of post which you can debate on. It's a very good debating technique, which i may decide to use myself in the future.

What I said about organization religion is largely true. Yes religion can be a great source of greater mental and spiritual strength, but most of the time those who shape religions have a series of unfortunate hypocrisies. If religions that are now in control of the world were in the hands of pious people, righteous individuals instead of narcissistic individuals/groups motivated by self interest, religion would be vastly different.

Just look at how they painted Jesus white outside of the middle east as an example, It's easier to believe in something that looks the same as you, another tactic used to control the masses. Could you imagine white supremacists calling a colored man the son of god? Zero do you not think religions have been hijacked to some extent ?

[SweetSuga]

Hi Zanjeer. I am new to AP, therefore new to this thread, I apologise if you're bogged down with questions but I haven't got too much to ask, most of what I wanted to ask has been questioned/answered.

Firstly I just want to say, I respect you for coming here and sharing your views, you have obviously really thought this through and then made your decision. I think members like incredible should be showing a better example, just ignore them.

Have you ever prayed Salaah and how has it made you feel? Also, if you are going through hard times what gives you hope? And, before scientific discoveries of complex things like the stages of an embryo, and the formation of an iceberg - this stuff was already printed in the Quran centuries before... What’s your view on this? And how do you feel when you hear Islam is the fastest growing religion on earth?

Thanks

[zanjeer]

I’ve had an eventful couple of weeks. As some of you will know, a lot of universities had their “Islamic Awareness” week this month, so after work I decided to pop into my local university to listen to some of the talks.

The speeches were full of the usual easily refutable tedious rhetoric that I’ve heard many times before. You only get a chance to question them in the Question & Answer session at the end, which I did, and their answers left a lot to be desired. Infact most people probably left with more questions than answers.

At the end of the debate was when it got interesting. That’s when everyone just started talking to each other and I had many interesting discussions. I had to pretend that I was a questioning Muslim rather than an ex-Muslim.

On one occasion I kept asking a Muslim a simple question (about Shariah law) that he couldn’t sufficiently answer, so he referred me onto another brother, and he couldn’t answer it either, so he referred me onto another brother... by the end they ran out of brothers to refer me onto.

At one point one of them put their hand on my shoulder and said... “Brother, you should only ask questions which are beneficial”.

hm