View Full Version : pakistan earthquake
oh my fuuuuucklin god, my dad and his family is in pindi and my mums side is in islamibad, anyone know where i can get more info on the death tolls pleaseeeee
bananasuit
08-10-2005, 10:43
try somewhere like bbc news .. or sky news somethin like that..... try an asian news channel ....
bananasuit
08-10-2005, 10:44
http://www.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,30000-13448553,00.html
bananasuit
08-10-2005, 10:45
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/4321490.stm
bananasuit
08-10-2005, 10:47
http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/asiapcf/10/08/quake.pakistan/index.html
Guji_Romeo
08-10-2005, 12:49
i hope everythings allright man i saw the news it looked bad
bananasuit
08-10-2005, 14:29
http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-5/1021648/674114_2.jpghttp://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-5/1021648/674146_3.jpg
http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-5/1021648/674214_8.jpg
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http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-5/1021648/20051008071751lahore_eq_203.jpg
http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-5/1021648/675424_11.jpg
http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-5/1021648/laun.jpg
http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-5/1021648/67419_1.jpg
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\man havent been able to contact my dad, they giving visas to anyone who want to go pakistan in mancheaster and hethrow airport also in the high commision
bananasuit
08-10-2005, 14:32
im sure everythin will b ok ...... god is with u
~*Anonymous*~
08-10-2005, 15:55
oh my god!!!
aggghh it wa spretty bad wernt it? my dad said it wa ssomething like 7.2 on the rictar scale!
eh billz dont im sure your family is fine all my prayers are with you
shukar allah there all fine
my dad said he was sleeping in the celler he was alone then he heard somin then he shouted which one if u is making that racket then he saw noone then he recited aytul khorsy and khalma and all family survived , im just gald they survived thanbk to allah, and other who have died, may allah grant them heaven in the month of Rhamdan
ameen
p.s this day has totally changed my life
Lyricall Paki Gyal
08-10-2005, 16:57
inshallah evry1 will be ok when i heard dis all my fam was on my mind cuz on da newz dey go it hit kashmir big time and dats where i live man am just praying 4 evry1 at da moment dats all we can do realli inshallah evry1s ok and my duas are wid all da ppl ameen!
Mr Sandman
08-10-2005, 19:13
I wouldnt want any such disaster happen in any country, but when hurricane katrina tore up new orleans, alot of muslims in pakistan were saying its the work of allah striking at them partly because america have troops in unwanted places.
Anyone want to clarify why allah would want to hit out at pakistan? Just curious as i see it as a natural disaster, and it could happen anywhere.
bananasuit
08-10-2005, 19:16
maybe hes teachin both muslims and none muslims a lesson for bein so foolish and fightin against each other :| ??
Mr Sandman
08-10-2005, 19:18
seems possible
bananasuit
08-10-2005, 19:20
hmm i was thinkin that but i didnt want anyone to think i was mean :| so im gona giv u some rep if it'll let me :D
Mr Sandman
08-10-2005, 19:25
you still havent given me any rep since last time i asked?! im disappointed in you.
Alright, you just want to give me rep because i made a point lol
bananasuit
08-10-2005, 19:27
yea a point no one else was brave enough to make :P
btw it says 200,000 ppl are dead :O
Mr Sandman
08-10-2005, 19:34
could be, but i suppose nobody may have thought of it.
Thats a high death toll, dont forget it includes northern india and parts of afghanistan.
Apparently it could be felt as far down as delhi, but no damage to buildings was done.
~*Anonymous*~
08-10-2005, 20:23
I wouldnt want any such disaster happen in any country, but when hurricane katrina tore up new orleans, alot of muslims in pakistan were saying its the work of allah striking at them partly because america have troops in unwanted places.
Anyone want to clarify why allah would want to hit out at pakistan? Just curious as i see it as a natural disaster, and it could happen anywhere.
well mr sandy wandy man, the people who said those sort of things are just stupid! They dont know what theyre talking about, according to what I believe these earthquakes, floods and all the natral disasters which are happening are because judgement day is near.
Allahs not just gona punish the non muslim countries but the Muslim ones too coz everyones become corrupt, even the muslims....so i guess Allahs just punishing everyone?
People am i right?
ruby angel
08-10-2005, 20:23
i agree wid nemo..
omg i neva even knew about this.....
bananasuit
08-10-2005, 20:24
i wrote somethin similar to nemo:|
ruby angel
08-10-2005, 20:38
sorry, i ddnt read all the posts tinkz....
bananasuit
08-10-2005, 20:40
BANANASUIT
NOT TINKERBELL :|
ruby angel
08-10-2005, 20:40
oops..sorry..i keep forgettin.....
bananasuit
08-10-2005, 20:41
hmmmmm y do ppl keep callin my tinkerbell or my proper name ??? i wish id never told anyone who i was :(
Mr Sandman
08-10-2005, 20:45
What about people who dont believe in allah? Would it be wrong for them to say that natural disasters really are natural?
Surely the people who were happy what happened in new orleans, prayed to allah and thanked him, may have died in the earthquake. Is that what allah wants? kill the people who worship him? i thought he wasnt a "violent" god as alot of muslims say, shouldnt our lives be lived to the fullest?
You cant really say all the people who died in pakistan were corrupt muslims, im sure there were some very devoted ones too.
bananasuit
08-10-2005, 20:45
ahhhh im an athiest anyway :|
~*Anonymous*~
08-10-2005, 20:52
What about people who dont believe in allah? Would it be wrong for them to say that natural disasters really are natural?
Surely the people who were happy what happened in new orleans, prayed to allah and thanked him, may have died in the earthquake. Is that what allah wants? kill the people who worship him? i thought he wasnt a "violent" god as alot of muslims say, shouldnt our lives be lived to the fullest
You cant really say all the people who died in pakistan were corrupt muslims, im sure there were some very devoted ones too.
yeah mr sandy wandy man your right i doubt all of them were corrupt, and those people who did pray and thank him were wrong those sort of people are arrogant and dont know the name of religion.
Like I said before the worlds becoming corrupt (in my beleifs) and Allahs just showing everyone that judgement day is near. These disasters are signs of the last day.
Hes not a violent God, Hes peace loving and we believe that our only point on earth is to please him so why live life tot he fullest? Coz we know the rewards in the afterlife are gona nothing compared to the joy we feel herre on earth.
I hope im making sense 8&
ruby angel
08-10-2005, 21:37
ye u r^^.................
Allah sends calamities not always as a punishment, but sometimes as a test.. Remember on Allah's throne it says "My mercy exceeds my anger.." Allah isn't cruel, he doesn't sit there and say "right today I think I'll flood china, and tomorrow I'll send a hurricane to America and the day after, I know it'll be fun to watch the fasting muslims dying in an earthquake... " no no, far from it! Allah does everything in his wisdom, and we shouldn't question his wisdom, see them as natural disasters instead, and keep an open mind.
bananasuit
08-10-2005, 21:45
hmm this thread seems to be jst muslims replyin ...wot about ppl from other religions wot do they think?
say what u think hunny :) i love listening to opinions :D
bananasuit
08-10-2005, 21:55
just coincidence i guess......
Mr Sandman
08-10-2005, 22:27
hmm, seeya_a and nemo seem to be contradicting each other. One says its a punishment and the other says its sometimes a test. How would you know if its a test or punishment?
If allah isnt cruel, why are muslim extremists present? The horrible things they do is all in the name of allah according to them, why would they be wrong? They've all studied from the same holy book as devote muslims.
bananasuit
08-10-2005, 22:32
chill out sandy......... uve got the eye of a hawk :P rofpml
Mr Sandman
08-10-2005, 22:36
eh! eye of the tiger sounds more appealing lol
was just asking, if you dont ask, you dont know :)
you was asking for non muslims for their opinion, so whats yours?
bananasuit
08-10-2005, 22:37
very true.. na ur defo not a tiger :| more like a hawk
Mr Sandman
08-10-2005, 22:39
whys that?
bananasuit
08-10-2005, 22:43
just tigers are big and tough and have GREEN eyes LIKE MOI !! so i must be the sexy tiger today :D
Mr Sandman
08-10-2005, 22:46
lol i could get green contacts, probably wouldnt suit me, but im sure i'd pass :)
bananasuit
08-10-2005, 22:47
lol my x had green eyes :D but i think im the sexiest tiger on the forum :P
Mr Sandman
08-10-2005, 22:48
lol! after me that is
bananasuit
08-10-2005, 22:53
ha ha no ur a gimp !! ha ha empty ur pms spazzy mcgee:|
Mr Sandman
08-10-2005, 22:56
its emptied, you can carry on writing your sick and twisted pms now
bananasuit
08-10-2005, 22:59
:O @ sick and twisted .... dnt tell me u didnt enjoy them :|
Mr Sandman
08-10-2005, 23:00
alright, i did secretly
bananasuit
08-10-2005, 23:02
ha ha u only admitted it cus u thought id giv u a kiss ha ha .... but i dont think u deserve one makin me bite ur toenails grrr!!! ;(
Mr Sandman
08-10-2005, 23:34
lol!
thought it was all part of the perks
ok i have strong opinions about this... firstly, ur expressions "muslim" extremisits.. i belive these people are "muslim" by name, for the acts they do in the name of islam is totally against islam, suicide bombing, teorrist acts are all totally against islam.... it says clearly in quran n hadith that we cant take innocent lives and under no means should we kill innocnet women n children.. so what these people do is go against the teaching of the quran and cliam that it is Allah's order which to me is an innovation to pure islam and hence, not islam...
Secondly, about following the same book, we may all read the same book but each one of use may all understand it differently, reading is such a thing where it depends on each persons interpretation and each persons interpretation is different... so for example when in the quran it says "kill the christians n jews" these people belive it refers to now n that we shud go bombing christians n jews, but what they dont realise is that the quran was sent down in intervals and at certain times, and these were revelations (wahi) to the Prophet and it referred to that moment in time, therefore they need to look at history and do tafseer, they cant take the Quran by the word, cuz a text is something completely different wen taken outts social context... the quranic ayah there in fact refers to the time wen the christians n jews really terrorised the muslims and did nothing but want war, and hence the order.. but these ignorant "pick n choose iman" people dont see that...
thats all i have to say, all in all, acts of terrosism are against islam totally, and anyone who believes they are not need to do more research, and denying this would be denying the word of god, so can these people be called muslim? no siree.
and about contradicting with nemo, i didnt, i said SOMETIMES its a test, and hence, sometimes, yes, it is a punishment. it can be either, only God knows...
peace out.
Mr Sandman
09-10-2005, 00:02
hmm, seeya_a and nemo seem to be contradicting each other. One says its a punishment and the other says its sometimes a test. How would you know if its a test or punishment?
If allah isnt cruel, why are muslim extremists present? The horrible things they do is all in the name of allah according to them, why would they be wrong? They've all studied from the same holy book as devote muslims.
yeah, you said SOMETIMES and i said SOMETIMES.
So if god only knows, how can people readily say its a punishment, as nemo stated.
she even knew judgement day was coming up soon
Voodookid
09-10-2005, 00:27
muslim extreamism is a major part of this days society. every1 thinks about it day in and day out. but there are other extreamists that ppl dont seem to be worrying about. the IRA are a prime example! remember the bombing in manchester.. hundreds of people died, yet no war against them. altho i believe that all kind of war is wrong. esp extreamists, it makes me sick when i hear of these acts humans are doin on other humans.
But its the way people are interpreting the whole situation! the media plays a big part in the matter by no means! cuz thats the only way we know what is actually going on! people say how the americans hate asians and how dey make asian peoples lives a living hell in america! thats very untrue, i jus went to new york; and i was in no way treated differently by the "white people, african americans" but worse, i was treated badly by the asians there! and i was in complete shock. so i think its the minority of asians who rekon there always right who are making it worse for every1else. and as for 9/11, i rekon it was a government plot, cuz it just gave america a reason to invade the middle east, and now they have what they want. the same happend whn bush was in power many yrs ago how he wanted to invade the middle east for oil. now the son has done the same and sucseeded! i think all george bush wanted was the oil. as every1 knows, the oil that is left is not going to last very long. so now that iraq are in debt to america, (because of how the americans are "helping rebuild" iraq, dey will obviously want payment in oil! so i rekon its more democracy than nefin else!
But it does suck wht happened on 9/11, and no1 deserves to die in that way.
also, i kno im going on a bit now lol, but as for the so called muslim suicide bombers, i rekon that is wrong too. im a muslim, and i disagree in what dey are doin. in islam it doesnt say in the quraan that if u commit suicide u go to heaven. and commiting suicide is NOT jihad either. if u commit suicide its a very big sin, no matter wht the circumstance as mentioned above by seeya_a.
As for The Terrorist organisations? do u kno hu put them into power? do u kno who funded them about 15 yrs ago? it was the americans! Usama Bin Laden used to work with the american government, and when they had finished wit the arms and whteva else they wer producing they flung him out! and its the americans hu arm the terrorists. nuclear powered ammo was neva found in iraq, yet the americans still invaded! and if u look at stats, the americans hav many nuclear warheads, and bombs! the thing is with most people, dey are fed this informations by the media, just like i am. but its the way u interpret the information thats given to u that counts, im very in to this subject, cuz a friend of mine hu was in the war in iraq for the british army, died out there! and that got me more into it, as there was no need for the british troops to be in iraq fighting a war that wasnt even remotly involving britain. 1 of my friends got thru the war and came back, and the info i got off him was very different to the info we wer given on the news.
At the end of all of it, every1 has an oppinion, and every1 has the right to believe in wht they want, this is not a communist place, a point of view can take u very far. and some ppl do believe that it was the muslims that wer responsible for 9/11, i personally dont believe that.
but like i said b4, every1 believes in wht they wnt. but this is a topic which will never be resolved, cuz the crimes have already been dun. we'l jus hav to wait n see wht happens.
But thats about 9/11, wht about the london bombing?! how about that african carib guy that was shot in public for running?! ok he was running thru a train station. maybe he was late for his train?! is that a reason to be shot dead?! there is different types of terrorism in all places of the world and things that go on that we dont even kno about.
To sum it all up, all these so called "muslim extreamists" are gonna burn in hell for thousands and thousands of yrs for each person they murdered. and if i had the opportunity then i wud like to see them die the same way they are killing ppl and just to see how der families feel and how they wud feel being blind folded waiting to be executed.. but thats my point of view. i can talk about this topic for hours on end, as i have very strong feelings about the wrong they are doing. but i guess the americans and the british are as much to blame as every1 else is. u cant target 1 type of person and say "it was your fault". there was no proof that it was muslims that wer the cause of 9/11 or the london bombings. yet there has been 2 wars on assumptions, which to me is just not a good enuf reason to kill more ppl. If terrorism had to stop, the first person to be killed wud the bush, then saddam, then bin laden, there are all to blame, but y not target them and not the ppl hu jus follow the same religion as them.
bananasuit
09-10-2005, 00:39
omg voodoo!!! thats very good !
I wouldnt want any such disaster happen in any country, but when hurricane katrina tore up new orleans, alot of muslims in pakistan were saying its the work of allah striking at them partly because america have troops in unwanted places. Anyone want to clarify why allah would want to hit out at pakistan? Just curious as i see it as a natural disaster, and it could happen anywhere.
Well i think you were going off topic there ^^, i didnt read everyones post, but oh well, ok basically what happened in america can be seen in both ways, as a punishment aswell as test. Well ofcourse anyone would think it was a punishment after whats been happening. But you see, what did the innocent civilians do to get such havoc in america? ofcourse nothing. You see you can see this in two ways, as a test aswell as a punishment in relation....
Also about whats happened in pakistan, ofcourse everything god does is for a reason. Im sure pakistan was hit for reasons god only knows best, ofcourse this can also be seen as a punishment at the same time as a test. You see muslims being on this planet are here for one reason only, to worship god. Our entire life is a big test, its like the matrix, nothing is real, the real bit comes after we die, everything we do is a form of worship. So going back to the pakistani issue, its yet another test, god wants to see if muslims help one another, want to see how we react etc etc,
I'll tell you a small story, i think its a hadith of some sort, not sure but its true.
"Two houses, one muslim, one non-muslim. The muslim guy was so practicising, prayed and kept his fast, he was like soo good. The non-muslim guy ofcourse was doing whatever he wishes, commiting sin. God sent the angel of death called Jibrael (correct me if im wrong somebody) to the two houses to take their lives. The angel came and found the muslim guy in the middle of his prayers. God then asked the angel to take the life of the muslim guy first..., the angel replied "But why? he is the best and is praying", god then said, "Because he was selfish and didnt tell his neighbour about the religion and kept it all to himself." So hence the angel took gods orders and took the life of the guy who was muslim first."
You see the motto in that? it is just an example, that god dosent just punish non-muslims as he wishes, as he made this world with muslims and non-muslims, giving us human beings a choice to follow the right path or choose the wrong that satan tells us. So again, like i said god has his reasons, ofcourse his actions are of punishment, and he knows best, also it is a test at the same time.
Forgive me if ive said anything incorrect, :)
lineyman
09-10-2005, 00:58
Go on Kays onlytime iv seen u say sumat inteligent goodstuff :)
my goodness! i do have me serious side! forums a forum! so the real people only know how im like.
lineyman
09-10-2005, 01:08
Chill i know im messing ur a good kid @ heart :)
io agree kayz these muslims as taht is what they ckak them selfs inpaki 50% of them are not they just by name, and they would rather take up the side of america then islam and to protect the umma, and also its a sign of the end, many disasters are still to come, these are the sign to muslims to unite and as once before with a khalifa
ruby angel
09-10-2005, 11:03
i agree wid wat kayz sed and voodoo sed, and kayz the angel of death is angel izraeel angel jibrael sends the messages. :)
~*Anonymous*~
09-10-2005, 12:52
wow
well said mr voodooji sir and sexy wexy kayzy wazy and oh you too seeya
Guji_Romeo
09-10-2005, 16:16
well i hope everyones family is ok, im sorry i havent read all 3 pages but like inshallah everything will be okay!
yeah, you said SOMETIMES and i said SOMETIMES.
So if god only knows, how can people readily say its a punishment, as nemo stated.
she even knew judgement day was coming up soon
I know u said sometimes, sorry i didnt phrase myself clearly, i meant that I wasn't contradicting nemo, for nemo says it's a punishment and I say it could be either, punishment or test, sometimes its one or the other, or could be anything else which we don't know of.. thus, not a contradiction, but an elaboration...
And I agree, people shouldn't "readily" say anything about what God does, because we don't know how God thinks, the only thing we can do is wonder or ask questions, but a line has to be drawn, for asking too many questions is dangerous to ones iman, although some amount of questioning leads to better understanding and more intact iman.. Sometimes things have to just be accepted we can't have the answers to everything, that's where the difference lies between us and Allah.. as said in the quran "he knows not what I know."
About Judgement day, we all know through hadith that it will occur some three hundred years after Jesus returns to earth, and those three hundred years will pass by "as fast as rosary beads falling and scattering on the floor." so My advice is, wait until Imam mehdi n dajjal come yet, let alone Jesus, then say Judgement day is coming up :p we're all safe from it.. and even when judgement day does occur no "true" muslim will be hear to experience it, for Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) says in a hadith, that "My Ummah will not experience Yaum-ul-Qiyamah, for a wind will blow and take all the true muslims with it, leaving all the non-muslims on earth to experience the day of judgement." therefore, remain steadfast to the quran n sunnah and inshaAllah things will be ok :)
peace out. x
Englaand di billo
09-10-2005, 16:53
mashaAllah Aasiya(sorri i dunt knw hw 2 spell ur nme properly) may Allah (SWT) increase ur knowledge even more inshAllah and may u alwyz remain steadfast on ur iman, may Allah (SWT) bless u with success both in this world and the hereafter and may u hav the highest plc in Jannah (ameen)
Mr Sandman
09-10-2005, 18:52
Some good points being made here, followed by cheers and i think thats a prayer.
One thing i've noticed is that seeya_a (and if not all of you) seem to think its allah that brought us here, had that been the case we'd all be muslims and i assure you not all of us are. Kayz tells a true story of a muslim and a non muslim. The muslim dies first for being "selfish", yet the non mulism probably commits far worser sins and dies second. Arnt we all equal in god's eyes? Shouldnt we be judged on how we lived our lives rather than being judged on how many people we've tried to convert?
voodoo, i understand your political statement. It does really come down to mainly oil amongst other things. You're right about the uk, there is absolutely no reason to deploy troops in iraq. But having said that, its not an excuse for a minor amount of british muslims (and lets not forget it was the uk government that let them settle in this country and build a reputable life) for them to turn around and start causing havoc, just because their country is under attack. Two wrongs dont make a right and they should be deported if they feel ties with al qaeda is neccessary.
Some good points being made here, followed by cheers and i think thats a prayer.
One thing i've noticed is that seeya_a (and if not all of you) seem to think its allah that brought us here, had that been the case we'd all be muslims and i assure you not all of us are. Kayz tells a true story of a muslim and a non muslim. The muslim dies first for being "selfish", yet the non mulism probably commits far worser sins and dies second. Arnt we all equal in god's eyes? Shouldnt we be judged on how we lived our lives rather than being judged on how many people we've tried to convert?
Hi,
Ok this is the second time im replying cuz my stupid comp botched up.. so here goes..
Firstly, I’d like to say that ur assumption that I think god bought us here is based on no fact and even so, it may be true it may not be.. However, the replies I wrote were according and relating to my religion for that was the topic that was being debated. Although, I must add, what’s wrong with thinking it’s ur God that’s placed u on this earth, surely Christians believe that they were placed on this earth by their god and Buddhists believe Buddhaplaced us here , hindus believe it was bhagwan and so on and so forth, it’s obvious that any person who believes in religion is going to believe it is their god that has bought them here, I’m hundred percent sure that there is no relgion in the world that believes and professes that "we don’t know who bought us to this world."
Secondly, I don’t know why ur generating implicatures and questions which were not implicated by my replies, I said nothing about equality. For indeed I believe that we are all equal in god’s eyes and that we can only be judged by our "piety and good will" (Quran and hadith) and also "God knows each and every hidden deed" for he is the only one "that can see in our hearts" (Quran). Nobody said we are judged by how many people we convert, what kinda books have u been reading Mr Sandman? We are judged by our actions and our actions alone, for even non-muslims will be rewarded for their good actions as is stated in a sahih hadith.
And about the non muslim and muslim, im not saying the muslim is a good man but haven’t u ever wondered that it’s not WHEN we die that matters, but it’s where we end up after we are dead that matters? And I am in no way sparking a debate about life after death, if u wanna discuss that I suggest u start another thread.
Disclaimer: all this is according to my religion, and I am in no way professing that this is the true or right religion and whatever anyone else believes is wrong, as Jalalludin Rumi once stated, "we are all different rays of light but we come from one lamp."
Once Again, peace out x
Mr Sandman
10-10-2005, 00:59
alright, theres nothing wrong with thinking my god placed me on earth, however, an atheist would say something along the lines of science brought us on this planet following evolution. Which seems like a plausible answer to me. And no, there isnt a religion which states god didnt put on on this planet.
I was reffering to kayz' true story as the outcome is mainly because the muslim was being selfish as he didnt notify his neighbour of the religion - Surely thats a basic form of trying to convert somebody. If someone on the street stopped me and started talking about religion, the only thing on their mind is to ultimately try and convert me, what else would be the point? Thats why i asked arnt we all equal in gods eyes and shouldnt we be judged on how we live our lives etc..In your second paragraph, you've basically contradicted his true story. Following on from the story, you say "We are judged by our actions and our actions alone" Well being selfish isnt much of a crime compared to what the non muslim was up to. A few people mentioned that allah isnt a violent god (im associating allah with this hadith as i dont think theres any other religion which does) and yet he's sent an angel down to kill him only on the basis of being selfish. The non muslim commits sins and gets 'rewarded' by dying second. Should it not be the other way round?
"for even non-muslims will be rewarded for their good actions as is stated in a sahih hadith." They'll be rewarded by who exactly?....
Regarding atheism, It's the same thing as what I said, whatever religion/sect or stuff u follow, that's what/who you're gonna believe bought us here, go here to see my views on different religion: http://aasiyalogz.blogspot.com/2004/11/stop.html i'm far from racist. Each to their own (unfortunately the comments on that cant be read as haloscan periodically deletes them, they were an interesting read).
About the story, I didn't read Kayz' story and so you should have made urself clear, cuz not everyone reads all the stuff on this forum. And again I say, killing a person earlier is not cruelty, it's where they end up after they're dead that matters, maybe God killed him because he wanted to call the man to him? Once again, we can't question God's wisdom. We don't know why the dude died first so we can't 'assume' it's because of that reason alone, for who said it was because he was 'selfish?' did God send down a voice "Oh people, he died because he erred, he never converted his neighbour to islam' that's just stupid!! God doesn't NEED followers, we need god, if someone doesn't convert someone to his path he's not gonna go kill them, that's just stupid, if that was the case I would be dead by now, and so would half a dozen billion other people on this planet. Where's this story from? hadith? the understanding or relation of it seems very flawed.
About non-mulsims being rewarded, in a hadtih it has been stated that the non muslim person will be rewarded on the day of judgement by the means of mirages of something nice, the momentary happiness they gain whilst running towards this mirage is their reward. and who else would there be rewarded by other than God? (that's if you believe in religion, if you don't I don't see the point of believing in such 'stories' as you did.. it's like saying a doctor negates and refuses to accept everything the herbologist professes, but uses his theories to back up his own claims about something... where's the sense in that?).
Mr Sandman
10-10-2005, 13:36
Heres the motto of the story by kayz:
"You see the motto in that? it is just an example, that god dosent just punish non-muslims as he wishes, as he made this world with muslims and non-muslims, giving us human beings a choice to follow the right path or choose the wrong that satan tells us. So again, like i said god has his reasons, ofcourse his actions are of punishment, and he knows best, also it is a test at the same time."
I sincerely dont think the muslim is off to a better place considering gods actions are of punishment and a test at the same time, and yes we can assume its the reason for being selfish, its clearly stated in the story. I suggest you go and read it because it happens to be a true story taken from hadith and you seem to be contradicting it. You've claimed to have read the hadith (or atleast reffered to it), so surely you would've known. You claim nobody knows what god's actions is, well a couple of people seem to already know....Unless they are wrong ofcourse.
In your 3rd paragraph you say "(that's if you believe in religion, if you don't I don't see the point of believing in such 'stories' as you did.." maybe i do believe in religion, but its interesting to see a person contradict a true story. Perhaps you're in the wrong?
playa4life55
10-10-2005, 16:50
Aight ya'all.. wots cookin?
listen y'all, b4 we get into a religious argument... let me say that terrorism is bullshit! who can define the word terrorism? and its only wen the muslims do summat its islamic terrorsist, why? why is there islamophobia bcz of certain individuals? Wen the BNP are acting against us then we dont seem to say christian terrorists? or the kkk? but wen a "TWISTED" muslim (not a propa muslim bcz he would know bombings etc is haraam, illegal) does sumthing the entire religion goes up in smoke? a "TWISTED" muslim is brainwashed, manipulated and iv experienced it 1st hand, then wen this brainwashed person blowz ppl up and buildings into smoke the entire muslim nation is known as a "POTENTIAL TERRORIST" and then get attacked as i have been attacked once by a bunch of white people... why is it that a muslim is known as a terrorist? why is it wen a muslim women wears the hijab (veil) she is sed 2 be oppressed but wen a nun wears it she is a religious devotee? wen a muslim keeps a beard and wears the sunnah clothing he is known as an extremist? but wen a jew wears his clothes, hat and beard he is known as religious? These are the questions u av got 2 ask!! bcz of islamic hatred it is eazy 4 ppl to think we all are terrorist!
And anova thing abt the Earthquake...if it was a test or punishment (allah knowz best) evry muslim tht died (keepin a fast in the month of ramadhan as well) is shaheed (Matyr) so he/she is gna get janaat (paradise) inshallah!!
Ok, Re: first paragraph first sentence, gonna go through this systematically. If you read any of my replies you would have found that that motto is exactly the same as the thing I have been saying, God doesn't punish non muslims or muslims for that matter as he wishes, for everyone is rewarded, even the non muslims? remember that bit? About free will, I also said the same thing, we aint all muslims on this earth because god has given us the freedom to choose between right n wrong. And the last sentence states it's a punishment and a test, and only god knows for he has hiw own reasons, another concept I've been banging on about. So all in all, Everything I have said does not contradict that motto one atom. So where's the problem?
Howver, another thing i have noticed, in the motto it doesn't state in black n white why the muslim dided first? actually it doesnt even mention that, the motto is about the punishment of non muslims, therefore the understading of that motto is clearly flawed. Also u mention it's from a hadtih, is the motto part of the hadith, or is that kays motto? Who exactly wrote that motto that u are sticking by with ur life?
And yes i agree with you that the muslim may not be off to a better place, and he will be punished for his act of selfishness, but my point was, who's to say and decide his destiny? are we God to say what's gonna happen to him? However I do believe all believers will go to Jannah eventually, as again, is stated in hadith that anybody who prayed and believed in La ilaha ilallah once in their life and died with iman will all eventually go to paradise, even though we may visit hell first to cleanse ourselves of our bad deeds.
Consequently, you said I claim to have read the hadith? Please mr. sandman go up and read each one of my replies, where have I claimed in any of them that "I have read the ahadith," or that hadith for that matter? Nowhere have I stated that. I quote from hadiths I know, that doesnt mean I am claiming I know all the hadiths? It's like saying he who says "Romeo, Romeo, where for art thou romeo?" is a person who cliams to have read shakespeare? No maybe they heard that phrase from someone, maybe they read that single phrase somewhere? Thus, I did not and will not claim I have read "the hadith" whatever u mean by that ambiguous phrase.
And "a couple of people already know" puh-leeeeaaaaze, come on! who are these people? nemo? people in the mosque? He who thinks they know or says they know what God's actions or knowledge is far from being a believer, because if they believed they would have to also believe what God says about humans not knowing what he knows and not posessing his knowledge. And just because they expressed their opinion does not mean they "do" know, it's totally subjective.
The last parapgraph of yours, as I said, my beliefs do not and have not contradicted that motto. so khalaas.
ciao x
playa4life55
10-10-2005, 18:21
Ok, Re: first paragraph first sentence, gonna go through this systematically. If you read any of my replies you would have found that that motto is exactly the same as the thing I have been saying, God doesn't punish non muslims or muslims for that matter as he wishes, for everyone is rewarded, even the non muslims? remember that bit? About free will, I also said the same thing, we aint all muslims on this earth because god has given us the freedom to choose between right n wrong. And the last sentence states it's a punishment and a test, and only god knows for he has hiw own reasons, another concept I've been banging on about. So all in all, Everything I have said does not contradict that motto one atom. So where's the problem?
Howver, another thing i have noticed, in the motto it doesn't state in black n white why the muslim dided first? actually it doesnt even mention that, the motto is about the punishment of non muslims, therefore the understading of that motto is clearly flawed. Also u mention it's from a hadtih, is the motto part of the hadith, or is that kays motto? Who exactly wrote that motto that u are sticking by with ur life?
And yes i agree with you that the muslim may not be off to a better place, and he will be punished for his act of selfishness, but my point was, who's to say and decide his destiny? are we God to say what's gonna happen to him? However I do believe all believers will go to Jannah eventually, as again, is stated in hadith that anybody who prayed and believed in La ilaha ilallah once in their life and died with iman will all eventually go to paradise, even though we may visit hell first to cleanse ourselves of our bad deeds.
Consequently, you said I claim to have read the hadith? Please mr. sandman go up and read each one of my replies, where have I claimed in any of them that "I have read the ahadith," or that hadith for that matter? Nowhere have I stated that. I quote from hadiths I know, that doesnt mean I am claiming I know all the hadiths? It's like saying he who says "Romeo, Romeo, where for art thou romeo?" is a person who cliams to have read shakespeare? No maybe they heard that phrase from someone, maybe they read that single phrase somewhere? Thus, I did not and will not claim I have read "the hadith" whatever u mean by that ambiguous phrase.
And "a couple of people already know" puh-leeeeaaaaze, come on! who are these people? nemo? people in the mosque? He who thinks they know or says they know what God's actions or knowledge is far from being a believer, because if they believed they would have to also believe what God says about humans not knowing what he knows and not posessing his knowledge. And just because they expressed their opinion does not mean they "do" know, it's totally subjective.
The last parapgraph of yours, as I said, my beliefs do not and have not contradicted that motto. so khalaas.
ciao x
whoah EAZY!!! yeh man Khalaas evry1
Ciao
playa, tis in our blood to speak our mind ;)
Howver, another thing i have noticed, in the motto it doesn't state in black n white why the muslim dided first? actually it doesnt even mention that, the motto is about the punishment of non muslims, therefore the understading of that motto is clearly flawed. Also u mention it's from a hadtih, is the motto part of the hadith, or is that kays motto? Who exactly wrote that motto that u are sticking by with ur life?
I meant to say the muslim "may" be punished for his act of selfishness, also elaborating on that, I don't believe we are judged by how many people we convert to Islam, but yes maybe a portion fo what we are judged on is the effort we make to spread the deen? Because as Muslims "we are agents of Allah" (Quran) and so it is our task to try n make an effort to spread his word. It doesn't have to be blatant outright preaching it could be just a small thing..
for example: my neighbours are old white people, sometimes when they're doing their garden up or having bags of gravel n pebbles delivered to their house they're too old to carry them into their back gardens, so me n my mum we help them out and do our backs in helping them. Why? because we are muslims and we have been taught to love our neighbours and help them even if they happen to be non muslims, this alone is an act of dawah (invitation) as the Prophet (peace be upon him) converted so many just through his character, showing a good character and good manners and behavioursims that have been taught by islam is an act of invitation. Just like wen the Prophet (peace be upon him) converted the old man by carrying his load for him even tho the man told him to beware of Muhmmad and said allsorts of bad things about him, eventually wen the man found out he (The prophet) was "muhammad" he accepted islam. Thus, if this man did not make an effort to invite his neighbour to Islam, by any means possible, maybe he will be punished for it.
damn i quoted the wrong thing and can't edit it because the administrators set a time limit on it. dammit :rolleyes:
And yes i agree with you that the muslim may not be off to a better place, and he will be punished for his act of selfishness,
playa4life55
10-10-2005, 20:11
playa, tis in our blood to speak our mind ;)
Dat tru gurl... freedom of speech... and 2 justify right frm wrong... i feel ya!!
btw sandman u'll have to scroll up up up for my first reply after ur last reply if that makes sense ;) heh im goin barmy....
playa4life55
10-10-2005, 20:20
isnt dis post men2be 2 wish good luk 2 tha people who witnessed or family witnessed da earthquake??
Mr Sandman
10-10-2005, 21:09
"we aint all muslims on this earth because god has given us the freedom to choose between right n wrong" Whats that supposed to mean? Being a muslim is right?
Oh so now you think a portion of your life will be judged on the basis of you spreading the word, so to speak: "but yes maybe a portion fo what we are judged on is the effort we make to spread the deen?" Clearly you stated earlier that all humans (muslim/non muslim) are equal in gods eyes and now you're indrectly saying theres a punishment for not spreading the word. Now all of a sudden you're an "agent for allah" recruiting is an objective in your life.
I found your little story about your old white neighbours to be a bit far fetched. "Why? because we are muslims and we have been taught to love our neighbours and help them even if they happen to be non muslims, this alone is an act of dawah (invitation)" Just because you're a muslim, it doesnt mean you're kind hearted. I for one, would go and help someone in need in a similar situation and im not muslim, you can call it 'diwah' i'd call in common sense. And what if it wasnt an act of 'diwah'? you wouldnt help them? I doubt it if you have any compassion. That whats people should be judged on, not because some holy person did it.
"Also u mention it's from a hadtih, is the motto part of the hadith, or is that kays motto? Who exactly wrote that motto that u are sticking by with ur life?" The "flawed" story is from the hadith according to kayz and the motto is how kayz interpreted it as, is he wrong then?
This one by you i couldnt miss "And just because they expressed their opinion does not mean they "do" know, it's totally subjective." So what you're telling me could be a complete load of nonsense as well "He who thinks they know or says they know what God's actions or knowledge is far from being a believer"
You havent read kayz' true story have you? The hadith is not a book of giant puzzles im sure, its to be taken at face value (why would they complicate things and put hidden meanings in it?) and it clearly states what god's orders are.
playa4life55
10-10-2005, 21:31
"Also u mention it's from a hadtih, is the motto part of the hadith, or is that kays motto? Who exactly wrote that motto that u are sticking by with ur life?" The "flawed" story is from the hadith according to kayz and the motto is how kayz interpreted it as, is he wrong then?
This one by you i couldnt miss "And just because they expressed their opinion does not mean they "do" know, it's totally subjective." So what you're telling me could be a complete load of nonsense as well "He who thinks they know or says they know what God's actions or knowledge is far from being a believer"
You havent read kayz' true story have you? The hadith is not a book of giant puzzles im sure, its to be taken at face value (why would they complicate things and put hidden meanings in it?) and it clearly states what god's orders are.
Listen u (£*$()£)"2... watch wot u sayin bout hadith n stuff cos u offending me and many muslims and i dnt care bout freedom of speech and shit so jst watch wot u sayin bout religion.... and this board is not 2 judge and take piss out of pplz religion k its bout makin m8z... but ppl lyk u make it hard... so do us all a fava and SHUT THA ($*%% UP!!
Tazmania
10-10-2005, 21:44
..took me time to read all the postz..but hav finally made it..and there seems 2 be a very heated discussion goin on..
people..*mr.sandman, playa and seeya_a*..plz dont argue..if it'z not an argument.i apologize in advance 4 the misinterpretation
i think the problem here is interpretation..and reading each others post properly..
btw mr.sandamn hadith according to shariah (islamic law) means words of the prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him)..have no idea if u already knew wat that meant..but plz 4giv me if u alredy did..
so kayz..i'm not really sure if the story u put up is actually a hadith...if it is could you back it up wid references..i.e..is it 4rm the 6 'true' hadith books?..i'm not sayin it in a harsh way..i would jus like some evidence..
i don't want to delve into the discussion any more..but as this topc is about the pakistan earthquake..my heartfelt condolences go out towards the people who have suffered from the earthquake..
the earthquakes aren't punishmentz..they are trials to test us..to see how we respond..that's what my beliefs are...
Arbash Shaikh
10-10-2005, 21:46
pplzzz plz stop talkin abt religionz nd get straight to topic.. we r all here to help dose who r indeed in need, so we will INSHALLAH..plzz carry on charity workz becaause itz a noble nd universal deed ... no matter whtz ur religion is, if u help otherz GOD will bless u nd help u in ur bad tymzz...
playa4life55
10-10-2005, 21:53
Thankz alot! mr Sandman startid 2 get egged on and jump unto religion! we all ere 2 talk abt tha earthquake.... and if u wna argue do it ova msn messenga or summat
Arbash Shaikh
10-10-2005, 21:59
cumon plaaaya jst cut it out man..... chillllxxxx will yaa!!!!
playa4life55
10-10-2005, 22:02
yeah k but i dnt like egged on ppl lyk Mr. Sandman
Tazmania
10-10-2005, 22:07
dude..i dont' think he'z eggin u on..he'z merely statin his opinion..i fink..
Arbash Shaikh
10-10-2005, 22:09
letz jump bkk to daa topic nd stop pointin each otha!!!!!!!!!
playa4life55
10-10-2005, 22:09
no im sayin HE'S EGGED ON!!! not eggin ppl on!!! as in he's thick in the hed!!
Tazmania
10-10-2005, 22:10
oho..sorry i read wrong..and thatz not rite..callin peepz thick..:mad:
ok i'm gonna reply to this post one last time because frankly ur interpretations to things said are very biased and garbled.. so im gonna make clear what i meant by everything i said and then that's it, because to tell u the truth i dont have time for meaningless arguments with stubborn and adamant people that aren't progressing the debate further.. Essentially, the motto and what I said are the same, and u still have a problem with that, acting as though I'm contradicting it!!
I didn't say being a muslim is right, READ please, i said we have freedom to choose between right and wrong, i.e. god doesnt make us all one religion (i only said muslim because thats what u referred to earlier on in the debate) because he gives us the freedom to choose between right n wrong, whether its islam or any other religion. if this isn't clear enough, go back to where i said it the first time i explained it more clearly then, but this time I never as I was rushed for time and I thought an intellectual like u might have a good memory that stretches to that part of the post.
second point, i didnt say a "portion of your life" u misinterpret and misread all in one, ur amazing. I said a "portion of what we are judged one" and read again, i said "maybe"..
Third point, whether u believe the story or not is entirely up to u, i dont have time and neither do i want to sit here proving that my story is true for there's no point in that and i have nothing to prove to u. if u knew my neighbours maybe u wudn't help them, they're quite (without sounding like a judge of character) mean people, very racist and they do countless things for which the neighbourhood ostracize them, and yet still me n my mum help em out, that i believe is due to our religion for we are taught "burayee ka badla barayee nahin hain" (i.e. the answer to evil is not evil). I'm sorry i didnt elaborate and make myself clear about that one. but yeh, now u know. btw, its dawah not "diwah" :p
fourth point... notice ur words "according to kayz," if ur not sure on the reliability of a hadith, don't quote it. As tazmania said, evidence, especially if unsure. if u need evidence of any of the hadiths i quoted i'll be glad to let u know. And how kayz interpreted could be wrong? I might say to someone in UK, "gimme a fag" and they wud gimme a cigarette, whereas to someone in USA or canda they would probably point me towards a homosexual person.. who's interpretation of what "I" said would be right? Besides, not everyones interpretation is "right" and neither is it wrong (unless the speaker him/herself is present to say so), it is an ambiguous thing, however it can not be taken as word of God, for at the end of the day it is an "interpretation."
Fifth point.. What im telling u could be nonsense yeah, but I assure u all the hadiths i quote and ideas i make n take are from quran n hadith, its ur choice whether u wanna belive em or not.
Sixth point... if the hadith wasn't a book of puzzles why do we have scholars debating over issues? why do we have different fatwas and different schools of thought? because no words, nothing we read can be taken at face value unless they are categorical assertions, however there are linguists who believe that nothing is a categorical assertion either, everything we say has to be read into. words have many connotations and many meanings. that's why the scholars of our deen advise us not to read the Bukhari sharif or any other hadith book alone, we must seek guidance n advice, because there are many ahadith that relate to context and history and tafseer is needed.
peace out.
Mr Sandman
10-10-2005, 22:12
Listen u (£*$()£)"2... watch wot u sayin bout hadith n stuff cos u offending me and many muslims and i dnt care bout freedom of speech and shit so jst watch wot u sayin bout religion.... and this board is not 2 judge and take piss out of pplz religion k its bout makin m8z... but ppl lyk u make it hard... so do us all a fava and SHUT THA ($*%% UP!!
Firstly, do you speak english?
I can see you're pretty hungry and tired, i hate it when a baby lets their dummy slip out its mouth in that state.
Listen me what? had a spasm while trying to swear?
I was just asking about it, no harm in asking right? Not my fault if everyones opinions doesnt really correlate with each other, it just makes things a bit more complicated for me to understand. Didnt say anything about judging, you've just made it up.
I think its just offending you, because nobody else has taken offence as yet, probably because they may know im not trying to cause offence you little gimp.
If it does offend your fragile little mind, dont post something that looks remotely like a retard did it as you've demonstrated, just say so politely.
You can do us all a favour, dont take a 'stupid' pill before you come on here in future.
playa4life55
10-10-2005, 22:12
yeh woteva u say! but ppl jumpin on2 religion and takin piss out of it, is dat not thick??
Playa4life, no one is thick in the head, in fact i would say Mr Sandman is intellectual for posing and keeping up an intellectual debate. debates are interesting they increase our knowledge and the road to better faith is true understanding, and what better way to understand than to question? Nothing I say is in malice, debate aside im :D with everyone, yes everyone gets heated in debates but im sure once they step outta em they're :D with each other unless of course they directly call someone "thick" :p
Tazmania
10-10-2005, 22:18
masha'allaha sis...it'z nice to know ur notone of those peeps who think they know evry thing..
:d
i belive nobody knows everything apart from God, and nobody knows "nothing" or is dumb/thick... everyone has brains, it depends on how they use em...
playa4life55
10-10-2005, 22:26
Firstly, do you speak english?
I can see you're pretty hungry and tired, i hate it when a baby lets their dummy slip out its mouth in that state.
Listen me what? had a spasm while trying to swear?
I was just asking about it, no harm in asking right? Not my fault if everyones opinions doesnt really correlate with each other, it just makes things a bit more complicated for me to understand. Didnt say anything about judging, you've just made it up.
I think its just offending you, because nobody else has taken offence as yet, probably because they may know im not trying to cause offence you little gimp.
If it does offend your fragile little mind, dont post something that looks remotely like a retard did it as you've demonstrated, just say so politely.
You can do us all a favour, dont take a 'stupid' pill before you come on here in future.
Listen u talkin bout politeness ryt? Well politeness also constitutes refraining from obscene language and swearing... especially whilst on the net.. as this goes against the mannerisms of 'netiquette'... so i nva had any 'spasms' as you so politely wrote earlier... i was jst censoring it, and btw u calling me a little gimp... dats your own opinion, and ur entitled to it, but just make sure u dont contradict your own views about politeness, as calling me 'a gimp' does not appear very polite at any level. So the next time you decide to give me, or anyone, any advice on politeness, make sure you remeber your own manners. The word hypocrite comes to mind, does'nt it??
But neway 2 be a betta man listen y'all im sorry of i offended ne1!!
Mr Sandman
10-10-2005, 22:53
LOL, this is very strange. You say something and i question it then in your next reply you'll somehow twist it, misinterpret it or add to it. And then you call me "amazing" Heres a classic example, scroll up to post #78 and read the very first line of what i've quoted from you. Here's your reply "I didn't say being a muslim is right, READ please, i said we have freedom to choose between right and wrong, i.e. god doesnt make us all one religion (i only said muslim because thats what u referred to earlier on in the debate)" I know you didnt say being muslim was right, thats why i asked, you clearly make it sound like being muslim is either a right or wrong path, so which is it? How about you try READING as well?
Your second point "i didnt say a "portion of your life" u misinterpret and misread all in one" Yes i did, so if its not a portion of your life, what is it? portion of 10 years? 50 years? portion of chips? portion of what exactly? If only you wasnt so vague, accuse others of being arrogant, stubborn, amazing, add bits to your next reply, twist my quotes of you, quotes of kayz, im sure we wouldnt be going round in circles.
In your 4th point your telling me not to quote the hadith if im not sure of the reliabilty of it. Lets get this straight as i feel you've twisted this one, I quoted it off Kayz which in turn quoted from the hadith, shouldnt you be telling him not to quote it even though its a true story? He clearly thinks its reliable.
No more on this subject, people are getting restless :)
So now your neighbours are racist, you say you had no time to add that bit to your story but yet you had time to write an essay. Strange that.
I'll settle for the fact that you could be telling me a complete load of nonsense as its a plausible conclusion.
Mr Sandman
10-10-2005, 23:06
Listen u talkin bout politeness ryt? Well politeness also constitutes refraining from obscene language and swearing... especially whilst on the net.. as this goes against the mannerisms of 'netiquette'... so i nva had any 'spasms' as you so politely wrote earlier... i was jst censoring it, and btw u calling me a little gimp... dats your own opinion, and ur entitled to it, but just make sure u dont contradict your own views about politeness, as calling me 'a gimp' does not appear very polite at any level. So the next time you decide to give me, or anyone, any advice on politeness, make sure you remeber your own manners. The word hypocrite comes to mind, does'nt it??
But neway 2 be a betta man listen y'all im sorry of i offended ne1!!
Did i make you type in english? Isnt that nice of me
Yes i called you a little gimp, and it was out of politeness at your level, so no contradiction there.
The word hypocrite only comes to mind when someone doesnt want me to voice my opinion and then openly say "dats your own opinion, and ur entitled to it" when it suits them.
hahahaha u know wot now im laughing, because i have so much more to say but just cant be asked because its clearly not going anywhere...
few things tho :p i cant resist.... hehe.. i dont say being a muslim is a right or wrong path. khalaas, i aint gonna bother explaining, because ur just not getting me, and its weird to explain on here, its easier in person.
re: portion.. why wud it be any years for that matter? i said i "a portion of what u are judged on" again u still misread. about the hadith, no more, until we get clear evidence where its from..
and about the neighbours and the essay, the first time round i didnt have time because if i went to explain properly it would have taken even longer than an essay (excuse me, i have a tendency to type alot).. second time i just cut it short and i only mentioned it because i didnt make it clear first time...
finito.. even if u reply to this imma try n resist the temptation to reply.. so say what u want :p call me a nincompoop if u want :D
ciao now, and hope theres no hard feelings, there isn't on my part anyway, i just love a good discussion.. hope all's well with u and u enjoy the rest of ur day.. buhbye x
Voodookid
10-10-2005, 23:12
at the end of the day ppl, we all have a choice in believing wht we want and believing in what we want. thats y its called choice! u either take the blue pill or u take the red pill. u either go home or u goto jail. How ever u want to interpret religion; which is a topic we can argue/debate and discuss for ever and ever without solving anything.
This discussion i think is going to end up very heated with things being said that will either offend alot of people and for definatly be interpreted the wrong way by most people.
So im going to sumerise this and close...
There have been many religions which have been "sent down" by god, islam, hinduism, christianity, judaism, animism which are the most common, and there may be many more. but i think most people believe that these are words of god and people believe in them and use them as guidence to help them through life. If you dont believe in god, thats ur given ryt. I wont question you as to why u dont believe in god, and nor should anyone else. as freedom of speech is a major factor of a lot of peoples lives, unless ur living in a communist country. (but thats a different topic which i wont go into just yet).
but all in all its about choice, if u do believe in god then thats your choice, then weather you take that as incentive and follow how your god has advised you to then that again is your choice. there is always right and wrong when it comes to religion, u just have to look at the conflict of israel to see the perfect example. but then that also boils down to their choices. and the choice that they made.
Voodookid
10-10-2005, 23:14
may be considered to reopen once discussed with OS and other moderators
playa4life55 sorry but you are in the wrong, MR.SANDMAN making valid points, he has the right to speak his mind, provided he is not offending nor attacking anyone, this is what you call a debate my friend. Topic Reopened, remember keep it civilised,
I am rather dissapointed that this topic has trangressed into something else rather than the reason why it was originally started.
I see people are quoting me on what i had said earlier, remember this was told to me a few years back, its not 100% correct, but the ending of the motto is similiar, so dont take it tooo far! :D
playa4life55
11-10-2005, 02:54
k im sorry y'all
i think this debate has been exhausted now.. we're ready for another one ;) remember it's all in good heart :) nothing we say is in malice but for the reason of debating and developing our minds only :D sorry if i offended anyone tho :p
pooBUMbiggins
11-10-2005, 10:24
What about people who dont believe in allah? Would it be wrong for them to say that natural disasters really are natural?
Surely the people who were happy what happened in new orleans, prayed to allah and thanked him, may have died in the earthquake. Is that what allah wants? kill the people who worship him? i thought he wasnt a "violent" god as alot of muslims say, shouldnt our lives be lived to the fullest?
You cant really say all the people who died in pakistan were corrupt muslims, im sure there were some very devoted ones too.
praying as a muslim for the deathj of others is wrong! even wishing bad upon an enemy is wrong in islam! so hose people who decided to pray to allah for what happened in new orleans are sad, bitter twisted fools! just because that is the view of some muslims does not mean it represents the whole community; im sure you must know! and the comment about people saying that natural disasters were caused to taught a lesson... i was going to ask the same thing!
as for those who don't believe in god, they have their science views also, its seen as the earths tectonic plates are moving every couple of years and once two plates move, they rub and this causes a quake!
pooBUMbiggins
11-10-2005, 10:32
oh yeh im replying as im going through each page on this so forgive me, because if i don't do it this way i'll end up forgetting everythign i read previously and my view:$ lol
but the extreme muslim view; there are extremists in every religion no? most extreme muslims are interpreting the quran in the wrong way and misguiding others to do the same and follow them.
islam means peace, which im sure you have heard on more than one occasion but thats because this is true, suicide is wrong! and suicide bombers you can obviously now guess is also wrong!
it is said that the quran should be followed according to the hadith but also a person must read through it and learn everything for himself! one is allowed to ask questions...
as for extremist.. what would you call the klu klux klan, how many sects are there of those who follow the bible.. more than one right?
and other religions... some follow rules and guidelines others don't...
they say what you get on one side of the world you will also get on the other; so therefore this can be applied to religion; what you get in one religion you are sure to get in another
you have some good views sandy (now to carry on, i hope im answering these well though)
pooBUMbiggins
11-10-2005, 11:08
the story that kays was on about; ive read something similar it is not from the hadith from what i know! it is a story told to children to teach them good and bad things; you know how christians have hymns etc etc to teach them right from wrong or little stories.
for a muslim to die whilst in prayer is the best thing! a muslim whilst praying to allah is most likely to go to jannah (heaven).
the thing about the guy being taken for beign selfish, is kays didnt tell the story properly... the muslim guy kept to himself and didn't talk to the other guy, he didnt share his knowledge, he didn't let him know of who he is!
and as for his motto thats what he must've derived from the story, when you are at the age of 10 maybe, you are learning of your religion and at school people ask you questions obviously you are going to share your knowledge, and say well in my religion we see belive this and this. you obviously learn about things from other people!
pooBUMbiggins
11-10-2005, 11:27
also the thing about other religions; muslims believe four books were sent down by god! so basically judaism, christianity had come down before islam, its only once the world corrupted islam was brought down by the last prophet muhammed (s.a.w).
but to this im not saying that you have the right to say its wrong, many of the tecahings are similar only thing is overtime they have been changed to suit values to nowadays (old testament, new testament)
whereas muslims believe the quran hasn't.
the quote: and eye for an eye in teh odl testament, has been changed to: if a person slaps you on your right cheek, give him your left cheek... this shouldn't be taken straight as its said, that if someones punches you on one side of your face you put forward the other and say hit me here... the tecahing is interpreted to you shoudl not retaliate!
the same in the quran one shouldn't retaliate to wrong doings!
so we as muslims can't be called racists or say another religion is wrong and not intact because we also believe in the books prior to the quran, as they had come down before; only thing is we believe that once the world corrupted islam was sent down to guide those who were misguided, but along with that teachings in christianity and many other religions are teaching of morals, common knowledge for example; being good, doing good deeds... each religion has their own outcome.
some religions believe they will come back to the earth (reincarnation) until they reach the highest status (man) and will continue to until they reach status of man this is done through being good yadda yadda... right or wrong?:$
each religion has their own outcome, their own teachings. and its no right to judge any as being wrong (the reason why i say you cant say it is wrong; is because liek mother theresa she was a christian yet a very good woman, she helped the poor she did so much and to this day she is recognised for her goodness, obviously she will receive goodness to which she is entitled to and even before god be recognised for them) but following your own.
LickleMizzNaughty
12-10-2005, 11:47
omg i cnt beleive it an me dads sis flew off to pakistan o nthe same day!!!!!!!
but shes k tho an so is ever1 else thanx god!!!!!!!
but can u belive that a whole generation of kidz have gne!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
there was this lady who was stuck 4 three dayz an all them 3 dayz she was rwading the quran beleive that!!!!!!!! wen they pulled her out she neva had a scratch on her!!
bananasuit
12-10-2005, 11:50
WOW poobum....how much hav u written.... shame u dont do ^^that^^ much work in college cus u wudnt be gettin shouted at by ur tutor if u had :|
pooBUMbiggins
13-10-2005, 14:23
hahaha:$.............................
bananasuit
13-10-2005, 14:25
awwwwwwwwwwwww dnt b shy .. u made some blaady good points mrs :d
pooBUMbiggins
13-10-2005, 14:26
lol thanks mr... but i was shy at wat u posted hehe abt my tutor
bananasuit
13-10-2005, 14:30
ha ha truth makes u shy eh ?
Mr Sandman
13-10-2005, 15:02
Well thanks for the insight poobum, admittedly i only glanced through a bit of the four consecutive posts you did.
Apologies, but i see you made an effort, so thanks for that. :)
bananasuit
13-10-2005, 15:04
lol.......... we all appreciate poobum.. id give her some rep for that but ive given my rep for the day :D
pooBUMbiggins
13-10-2005, 15:06
i didn't just make an impact there was a big massive impaaaaaaaaact :|:|:|:|
Mr Sandman
13-10-2005, 15:10
agreed hayley
pooBUMbiggins
13-10-2005, 15:14
oh does that mena u have given me rep mr sandman (A)
bananasuit
13-10-2005, 15:18
yea sandman huh ???
playa4life55
13-10-2005, 15:48
how come no1 gives me repz?
Voodookid
13-10-2005, 23:16
post something that every1 thinks is a valid and good post and u will. ive only had 2 rep points from ppl
bananasuit
13-10-2005, 23:23
ive given out too much rep in the last 24 hours or i would
playa4life55
14-10-2005, 01:57
pleez sum1 give me some rep... i feel deprived!!
Mr Sandman
14-10-2005, 21:11
oh does that mena u have given me rep mr sandman (A)
yes it does :)
pooBUMbiggins
16-10-2005, 00:45
yeyyyyy thanks man! the sandman
i havent got any rep points i think
playa4life55
17-10-2005, 03:16
u av 11 homie... u greedy lil...... newayz ne1 wna giv me rep pointz... u more than welcome
Sad to hear about the earthquake. One thing about asians is when its a asian country under attack they jusmp off they seats but when its some other non-asian country, its rah leave it, it happens.
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